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#Post#: 93325--------------------------------------------------
Re: 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
By: JustLoveCars Date: October 8, 2025, 3:48 am
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[quote author=mrbluejay link=topic=8191.msg93321#msg93321
date=1759911513]
[quote author=andy_foster link=topic=8191.msg92684#msg92684
date=1759494844]
Not presenting an exceptional hardship argument will result in a
6 month ban.
Presenting one might reduce or avoid a ban. Or it might not.
[/quote]
Hi, would what I've already listed not constitute exceptional
hardship?
[/quote]
That's for the bench to consider - the guidance has been posted.
IMHO the arguments aren't wholly convincing. You would be
expected to collect evidence to back up your claims and
highlight the 'impact on others'.
You may well be challenged why public transport or taxi's could
not suffice for example.
[quote author=mrbluejay link=topic=8191.msg93322#msg93322
date=1759911566]
[quote author=FuzzyDuck link=topic=8191.msg92688#msg92688
date=1759496153]
[quote author=mrbluejay link=topic=8191.msg92667#msg92667
date=1759485498]
I've recieved the images for both alleged offences. All 4
photos for each face the rear of the car, so do not asisit in
identifying the driver
[/quote]
Is there any doubt who the driver is? The photographs are only
intended to identify the vehicle.
[/quote]
Potentially yes, genuinely could be my Wife on one of them.
[/quote]
Which implies at least one is you - which will still trigger
totting.
#Post#: 93365--------------------------------------------------
Re: 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
By: ManxTom Date: October 8, 2025, 8:01 am
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[quote author=mrbluejay link=topic=8191.msg93321#msg93321
date=1759911513]
[quote author=andy_foster link=topic=8191.msg92684#msg92684
date=1759494844]
Not presenting an exceptional hardship argument will result in a
6 month ban.
Presenting one might reduce or avoid a ban. Or it might not.
[/quote]
Hi, would what I've already listed not constitute exceptional
hardship?
[/quote]
How would you answer if the magistrates were to ask you why - if
your driving licence is so important to you and to others - have
you collected another potential 6 points when you've already
accumulated 9 during the last 18 months and did a speed
awareness course just two years ago?
#Post#: 93378--------------------------------------------------
Re: 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
By: Freecall Date: October 8, 2025, 9:30 am
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As has already been stated, EH is something that is ultimately
for the Bench to consider but to give you some idea of what may
be considered relevant:
Loss of job - no chance, in fact this is specifically mentioned
in the guidance.
Being in considerable debt that only your job will allow you to
service - simply irrelevant.
Your Mother-in-law being cared for by your Wife - possibly but
you would need a very convincing argument as to why your wife
can't attend her mother without you driving her.
Your teenage Granddaughter being a national level Athlete, an
activity which she would have to stop if you were unable to
drive her - potentially your strongest argument but is it really
the case? Is there no other way she can get there? Public
transport, taxi, friend, anything at all?
Your ability to obtain future employment - again, irrelevant.
I could imagine a sympathetic Bench wanting to prevent your
law-breaking to adversely affect your Granddaughter but you
would have to demonstrate that she really would be affected in
the way that you describe.
Finally, don't forget that you don't go to court and simply
state your case. You will be cross-examined in detail (under
oath) by an experienced CPS advocate. This will include any
evidence you wish to produce to the court to support what you
are saying. Make sure that any claim you make can be backed-up
by hard evidence.
#Post#: 93384--------------------------------------------------
Re: 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
By: NewJudge Date: October 8, 2025, 9:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Yes, ManxTom makes very good point.
There is this passage in the Magistrates' guidance which they
refer to when hearing "Exceptional Hardship" arguments:
If a motorist continues to offend after becoming aware of the
risk to their licence of further penalty points, the court can
take this circumstance into account.
It seems you have committed six speeding offences in two years,
the last two when you knew you faced a disqualification if you
committed further offences. Although you otherwise might have
the makings of a successful EH argument, the court must question
whether it is really as important as you suggest that you are
able to drive when you have continued to offend with nine
points.
You will certainly need strong evidence to back up your claims.
Contrary to the above I believe the best feature of your
argument is the care needed for your M-I-L. You will need to
flesh that out and substantiate it. I would forget the bit about
your granddaughter. Again, contrary to the above, I believe what
you describe is not hardship but inconvenience.
If you are responsible for both the recent offences, you need to
ensure you have them both heard together when presenting your
argument. The last thing you want is to present a successful
argument for one only to have to have the second heard later.
You will face disqualification again and you cannot use a second
EH argument using the same reasons within three years.
#Post#: 93407--------------------------------------------------
Re: 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
By: roythebus Date: October 8, 2025, 3:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Picking up on NewJudge's and other comments, if your wife was
probably involved in one of the speeding offences, then why can
she not drive herself to MIL, and drive granddaughter to her
competitions?
#Post#: 93426--------------------------------------------------
Re: 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
By: ManxTom Date: October 8, 2025, 6:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=roythebus link=topic=8191.msg93407#msg93407
date=1759956047]
Picking up on NewJudge's and other comments, if your wife was
probably involved in one of the speeding offences, then why can
she not drive herself to MIL, and drive granddaughter to her
competitions?
[/quote]
I wondered about that too
#Post#: 93435--------------------------------------------------
Re: 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
By: NewJudge Date: October 9, 2025, 2:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I think the issue is this:
[quote]Her job means so overnight travel, so where that does
happen I provide that care and there is no other reliable
alternative.[/quote]
This will have to be explained in some detail.
#Post#: 93455--------------------------------------------------
Re: 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
By: BertB Date: October 9, 2025, 5:35 am
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Surely the majority of people facing a totting ban are there
because they risked their licence by continuing to accrue points
when they were in danger of totting. I very much doubt such a
question would be asked.
It may be rhetorical, mentioned after is his plea is rejected,
but I doubt it being used otherwise.
However it does not deny the OPs ability to present an EH argue
to avoid a ban and shouldn't influence under the circumstances.
Considering the OP would not be able to make the same argument
twice in quick succession, any avoidance of a ban may be
academic anyway given their love of collecting points.
#Post#: 93477--------------------------------------------------
Re: 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
By: NewJudge Date: October 9, 2025, 7:29 am
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[quote]I very much doubt such a question would be asked.[/quote]
If the guidance is being followed, it should be, Bert.
The idea of the EH provision is for Magistrates to examine the
hardship a driver or others might face. The circumstances behind
the offences which led to him facing a totting ban should not be
considered. But the guidance makes it clear that the court can
consider the circumstances when a driver commits further
offences in the knowledge that he would face a ban.
In my view it gives the court an additional angle which, if they
were to examine only the hardship faced, they would not have. It
helps them assess just how important it is for the defendant to
be able to drive. I would suggest that drivers who really,
really need their licences do not commit two further speeding
offences when they are on nine points.
That said, early this year I helped a lady formulate a
successful EH argument only to find last month that she had
committed a further offence just two days before her “active”
points total reduced to six. Fortunately, although she had
earlier taken a course, it was just outside the three year
period and she was offered another!
Seems you can’t help some folk! :(
#Post#: 93498--------------------------------------------------
Re: 9 Points + 2 incoming NIP's
By: JustLoveCars Date: October 9, 2025, 9:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=NewJudge link=topic=8191.msg93477#msg93477
date=1760012969]
...do not commit two further speeding offences when they are on
nine points.
[/quote]Or possibly just one... (Either way not ideal)
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