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#Post#: 91417--------------------------------------------------
Newham Council PCN while Unloading Van
DIR By: rsg444
Date: September 25, 2025, 5:32 am
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Dear all,
I was wondering if you can assist.
My father in law who is a builder was doing some works at a
property in Newham for one of his customers. The property is in
a CPZ. He parked on the same street to unload some bath panels.
He saw the CEO arrive on his scooter and told him he was
unloading, the CEO nodded his head and continued riding his
scooter. FIL returned to his van to find a PCN affixed. He
appealed on the grounds on unloading building materials. He
provided a receipt showing the goods, gave the address of where
he was working. Explained the what the goods were (large
bathroom wall panels and adhesives) and provided evidence from
Newham's website that unloading/loading is permitted in CPZ and
that you can do so for up to 20 minutes.
The following is their response to his informal challenge - it
appears to me to be Procedural Impropriety as they clearly
haven't considered the points - if they had they wouldn't
mention in their letter the address that was given to them and
then a paragraph later state that he didn't provide the address
of where he was unloading them to. I'd go as far to say that
copying and pasting the points to somehow prove they've been
considered but then only to contradict themselves later on with
the generic part of their response is clearly failure to
consider. Any assistance and guidance will be much appreciated.
Thank you for your correspondence received on 08 September 2025
regarding the
above penalty charge notice (PCN). Your comments and the notes
of the Civil
Enforcement Officer (CEO) have been considered.
Your vehicle was observed at 10:39 Parked in a residents' or
shared use parking
place or zone without a valid virtual permit or clearly
displaying a valid physical
permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that
place where required, or
without payment of the parking charge in Gresham Road.
You have stated that you were unloading building materials for
work at 47 Gresham
Road. You informed the Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) that the
unloading would
take 15–20 minutes, and he acknowledged this before leaving.
Despite this, a PCN
was issued after only 7 minutes of observation. You locked your
van each time due
to high-value tools inside, and there were no loading
restrictions in place. According
to Newham Council’s guidance, loading/unloading is permitted in
Resident Permit
Bays. You have also provided a receipt as evidence of the goods
being unloaded. In
light of these circumstances, you respectfully request that the
PCN be reconsidered
and cancelled.
We have carefully reviewed your comments and the available
evidence; however,
we have not found grounds to cancel the penalty charge.
After reviewing the Civil Enforcement Officer's (CEO) notebook,
we found no
evidence of a conversation between the driver and the officer.
Without supporting
evidence, we cannot consider the conversation you mentioned.
You have stated you were loading your vehicle, however the Civil
Enforcement
Officer (CEO) observed your vehicle for 7 minutes and did not
see any loading or
unloading taking place. Therefore, the PCN was issued correctly.
London Borough of Newham
Parking Correspondence
PO Box 71575
London E6 9LY
25 September 2025
Although you have stated that the vehicle was parked at the
location for the purpose
of loading and unloading and have provided a receipt, it is
missing key information.
This includes details of the goods being loaded or unloaded, the
date and time of
collection and the address where the goods were being delivered
or collected to
confirm that the vehicle was being used for a delivery or
collection at the time of the
offence.
Please note it is the responsibility of the driver to be aware
of the restrictions that
operate in the areas they choose to drive and park. The driver
must keep a proper
lookout, check signs and ensure that they adhere to the
restrictions, and ensure their
vehicle is legally parked before leaving it unattended.
In conclusion, having taken all aspects of this matter into
consideration, no
justification for cancelling the penalty charge notice has been
found.
The discounted payment of £80.00 will be accepted in full and
final settlement
if paid not later than the last day of the period of 14 days
beginning with the
date of service of this letter.
You can view evidence of the contravention online at
parking.newham.gov.uk by
selecting ‘View a PCN.’ You will need your PCN number and
vehicle registration
mark (VRM).
If payment is not received within this time, the full penalty
amount of £160.00 will
become payable.
Payment should not be made if you wish to pursue this and want
to make formal
representation, as payment is seen as an acceptance of liability
and will close the
case.
If payment is not received as detailed, I shall assume that you
wish to pursue the
matter and shall arrange for a Notice to Owner to be sent after
the period of 14 days
to the registered keeper of the vehicle so that formal
representations may be made.
Should these be rejected, the registered keeper of the vehicle
will then be offered the
opportunity to appeal to the Environment and Traffic
Adjudicators. I should point out
that, should you decide to take this course of action, after the
discount period has
expired, you will forfeit the right to pay the Penalty Charge at
the lower rate and the
full charge of £160.00 will be due.
If you are not the registered keeper of the vehicle, for example
the vehicle is a
company or lease/hire vehicle, or being used with the owner`s
consent, I suggest
you advise the keeper that a Notice to Owner will be issued.
Please note that Newham Council is unable to consider any
further correspondence
at this stage regarding this penalty charge notice.
#Post#: 91423--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham Council PCN while Unloading Van
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: September 25, 2025, 6:01 am
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Does the van belong to yr f-in-l and does the V5C carry his name
& address?
#Post#: 91429--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham Council PCN while Unloading Van
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: September 25, 2025, 6:11 am
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This is a PCN served on-site, so the first challenge is an
informal representation. Newham always reject informal
representations. It's a tactic to intimidate you into paying up.
To take the matter further you will have to wait for the Notice
to Owner and submit a formal representation (challenge). And if
this is refused you'll need to submit an appeal to the
Adjudicator. If you were to lose you would be liable for the
full penalty, not the discount amount.
The NTO will be posted to the registered keeper of the van. So
is your Father the RK or might it be a lease company or an
employer? And is the address current and correct. It's best to
actually check the V5c, assuming Dad is the RK.
Please post up the PCN. Leave everything visible, including the
vans's reg number and the PCN number. Let's assess your chances
with the Adjudicator.
#Post#: 91438--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham Council PCN while Unloading Van
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: September 25, 2025, 6:43 am
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Please also post a GSV link to the location.
#Post#: 91441--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham Council PCN while Unloading Van
DIR By: rsg444
Date: September 25, 2025, 6:59 am
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Thank you for your responses. I will post up the PCN at some
point tomorrow when I'm back home. But in the meantime, the PCN
reference is PN23480956 is VRM is *M5*KUU*.
The van is registered to FIL - i.e. he is the RK
Google Street View is:
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/place/47+Gresham+Rd,+London+E16+3DU/@51.5120006,0.0303125,3a,75y,19.85h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1stjY8vSy5mx3tfUjPtjVZjg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D0%26panoid%3DtjY8vSy5mx3tfUjPtjVZjg%26yaw%3D19.845179!7i16384!8i8192!4m6!3m5!1s0x47d8a876894736a1:0x8ec2c2f649cea8aa!8m2!3d51.5121351!4d0.030364!16s%2Fg%2F11c4n46jgj?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDkyMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
Many thanks.
#Post#: 91444--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham Council PCN while Unloading Van
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: September 25, 2025, 7:13 am
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CEO's pics just show nothing going on but they are not
timestamped.
Loading does need to be going on and 7 mins is rather too long
without an explanation.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/27Qkh5mL/Screenshot-2025-09-25-at-13-10-47.png
#Post#: 91445--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham Council PCN while Unloading Van
DIR By: rsg444
Date: September 25, 2025, 7:21 am
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I agree stamford man, I did ask why the CEO was able to observe
the van for 7 minutes. He said it was because they couldn't find
parking near the property so had to walk down the road to drop
each wall panel off of which the return journey is probably
longer than 7 minutes - plus hes almost 70 years old so not the
quickest person anymore.
My main issue is them "acknowledging" the points raised in the
informal challenge but effectively repeating them in their
response but then the grounds for rejection are that we did not
raise the very points that they've acknowledged. For example:
"You have stated that you were unloading building materials for
work at 47 Gresham
Road.
"Although you have stated that the vehicle was parked at the
location for the purpose
of loading and unloading and have provided a receipt, it is
missing key information.
This includes details of the goods being loaded or unloaded, the
date and time of
collection and the address where the goods were being delivered
or collected to
confirm that the vehicle was being used for a delivery or
collection at the time of the
offence."
This for me at least is not considering the points raised. Plus
in the initial challenge, FIL did state what the items were, and
uploaded the receipt for the said items - as it was an eForm, we
no longer have the actual challenge sent - in hindsight it
should probably have been screenshotted or copied and pasted
into Word.
#Post#: 91450--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham Council PCN while Unloading Van
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: September 25, 2025, 7:42 am
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If he was taking the stuff some distance that's a factor and
having to make several trips.
These situations turn on facts that someone can explain to an
adjudicator to justify the exemption.
#Post#: 91461--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham Council PCN while Unloading Van
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: September 25, 2025, 8:10 am
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+1, facts.
Let's look at the facts.
The vehicle was parked outside no. 36.
No. 47 is on the opposite side of the road, in fact immediately
opposite.
He was parked in a permit holder bay during restricted hours
without displaying any permit(not even visitors?), therefore
unless an exemption applies the vehicle was in contravention.
Unloading/delivering is apparently an exemption. However, this
cannot take a second longer than necessary and delivering does
not allow for sorting out where items are to go, but would allow
for placing them.
You say 'He said it was because they couldn't find parking near
the property so had to walk down the road to drop each wall
panel off of which the return journey is probably longer than 7
minutes', but given the objective facts and, apparently, reps
which claimed that the delivery address was no. 47 which is
immediately opposite, then IMO an adjudicator is not going to be
persuaded by these claims.
Is the driver in a position to rebut the CEO's claim that the
vehicle was observed for 7 minutes or otherwise able to explain
why the vehicle was left unattended for this period? If not,
then IMO he would struggle on this point.
#Post#: 91464--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham Council PCN while Unloading Van
DIR By: rsg444
Date: September 25, 2025, 8:35 am
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Thank you HCA, I should have done some due diligence myself
before asking for assistance on here. I will speak with him over
the next few days when I get a chance and recommend he just pays
at the discounted rate because now that its clear the van was
almost opposite the address where he was working - there is no
reason why it took him 7 minutes.
I still feel the PCN is harsh and that their response to the
initial challenge is laughable as it does not consider the
points - but regardless, if unloading means him having to clear
the area to set down the panels or whatever else he might have
had to do then he should have obtained a permit IMO.
Thanks all for your assistance and apologies for taking up your
time.
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