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#Post#: 91385--------------------------------------------------
Urgent help please! speeding case later today
DIR By: Coolio123
Date: September 24, 2025, 7:44 pm
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Hi All
Just had this brilliant website recommended to me today on
Reddit. I have a speeding court case later today and I'm very
nervous.
Summary of My Case:
I am due in court regarding two speeding offences that occurred
on the same day.
First offence: 11:58am, M4 motorway, 79mph.
Second offence: 12:03pm, same stretch of the M4, only 5 minutes
later (speed awareness course completed).
Third offence: 10:55pm, later that evening on the same day,
80mph.
Thames Valley Police offered me a Speed Awareness Course for the
second offence (12:03), but issued Fixed Penalty Notices (3
points each) for the first offence (11:58) and the third offence
(10:55pm).
This effectively boxed me in, because usually the first offence
in a sequence is eligible for the course. By applying the course
to the second offence instead, Thames Valley have potentially
prevented me from arguing that the 11:58 and 12:03 offences
formed part of a continuous journey and therefore should be
treated as one.
My Arguments in Court:
1. Continuous Journey Principle
The first 2 offences were only 5 minutes apart, on the same
stretch of road, during the same journey. I had no awareness of
the first offence when committing the second, so no opportunity
to correct my driving. Case law examples: Cotterill v Chapman
(1984), DPP v Milhench (1996), McKeever v Walkingshaw (1995)
(Scotland) — courts have recognised that offences
committed in close time/geography can be treated as one.
2. Mitigating Circumstances: unexpected death in the family so
was visiting relatives. Probably not a strong argument but worth
mentioning nevertheless.
3. clean licence for nearly a decade with no previous offences.
4. Proportionality & Fairness:
This was not sustained or repeated disregard for the law, but a
single bad day of driving under emotional strain.
I've plead guilty for the two speeding offences, 11.58am &
10.55pm. But for the evening one, I don't remember who was
driving. Is that worth bringing up or is it too late?
Lastly, is it worth asking for a mitigation in sentencing e.g.,
lower fine, or potentially a short discretionary
disqualification instead of accumulating 6 points.
#Post#: 91387--------------------------------------------------
Re: Urgent help please! speeding case later today
DIR By: The Slithy Tove
Date: September 25, 2025, 12:59 am
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1. You should have brought up the two close offences at the
time. Courses are at the discretion of the police. If you want
to argue that you've paid the penalty for the 1st capture, I
think you're too late now.
2. Correct. Poor argument.
3. Irrelevant
4. The most "proportionate" way would have been to accept 2 FPNs
at £100 each.
You've already admitted being the driver for the 3rd one
(assuming you responded to the NIP saying as much). Don't go
changing your story now or it'll end badly.
With a guilty plea for both, you can always ask to be sentenced
at the fixed penalty level, but there's no reason why they
should. No way would they impose a ban.
#Post#: 91396--------------------------------------------------
Re: Urgent help please! speeding case later today
DIR By: Coolio123
Date: September 25, 2025, 3:05 am
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I assumed the continuous journey was my best bet.
I did engage with the police multiple times. They said, each
alleged offence must be considered separately. Only a magistrate
can consider all alleged offences together.
I thought I’d be cheeky and ask for a short ban, a couple of
weeks over having 6 points for a 4 year duration as I’ve got
nothing lose at this point!
#Post#: 91399--------------------------------------------------
Re: Urgent help please! speeding case later today
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: September 25, 2025, 3:34 am
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If you are in court for the first and third offences the court
cannot consider the second at all, let alone rule on whether
offences 1 and 2 constituted a single offence.
You did not have to accept the course and must have been aware
of the first offence by the time you undertook it.
To address your points:
1. As above.
2. Irrelevant and not worth mentioning.
3. The court will be aware of your record. Previous offences
aggravate an offence. Lack of hem does no mitigate it.
4. If you were driving under a strain which meant you could no
obey he speed limit, the court will wonder whether you should
have been driving at all.
--- Quote ---
> I've plead guilty for the two speeding offences, 11.58am &
10.55pm.
--- End Quote ---
I'm confused. I thought you were facing court action for only
offences 1 and 3.
#Post#: 91401--------------------------------------------------
Re: Urgent help please! speeding case later today
DIR By: Coolio123
Date: September 25, 2025, 3:41 am
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Yep, offence 1 & 3. I’ve been told by a solicitor that it’s up
to their discretion, but it was very strange for the police to
give a course for the 2nd offence rather than the first.
I presume your advice would be to ask to be sentenced at the
fixed penalty level?
#Post#: 91415--------------------------------------------------
Re: Urgent help please! speeding case later today
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: September 25, 2025, 5:27 am
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--- Quote ---
> I’ve been told by a solicitor that it’s up to their
discretion,...
--- End Quote ---
It would have been had they had offences one and two before
them. But they won't. They cannot consider the circumstances of
an offence that has already been settled by way of you doing a
course.
--- Quote ---
> I presume your advice would be to ask to be sentenced at the
fixed penalty level?
--- End Quote ---
That's the best you can hope for. I think to achieve that you
must present yourself as a very confused individual. The court
will know that you were offered fixed penalties, were able o
accept them but declined. You will have to somehow convince them
that you (mistakenly) believed that you could make the
"continuous offence" argument even though one of he offences
concerned had been dealt with.
Your idea of asking for short ban will not fly. Both offences
are at the lowest end of seriousness (assuming the limit was
70mph in both cases) and the court would not consider a ban for
either of them or for the two taken together (unless, of course,
"totting up" was involved).
#Post#: 91421--------------------------------------------------
Re: Urgent help please! speeding case later today
DIR By: disgruntchelt
Date: September 25, 2025, 5:51 am
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I would have thought your defence to the first charge is that
the prosecution is an abuse of process as you’ve already dealt
with the offence by the way of a course. You are then inviting
the magistrate to agree that they were one offence.
#Post#: 91436--------------------------------------------------
Re: Urgent help please! speeding case later today
DIR By: Coolio123
Date: September 25, 2025, 6:26 am
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Sorry to sound confused but how can I argue this? P.s. thanks
for all the advice, much appreciated!
#Post#: 91463--------------------------------------------------
Re: Urgent help please! speeding case later today
DIR By: disgruntchelt
Date: September 25, 2025, 8:23 am
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From the CPS website
“Examples of when it may be said to be unfair to try the
defendant
Proceedings begun or continued in breach of promise not to
prosecute
In Hamza [2006] EWCA Crim 2918, the Court of Appeal confirmed
that the authorities “suggest that that it is not likely to
constitute an abuse of process to proceed with a prosecution
unless (1) there has been an unequivocal representation by those
with the conduct of the investigation or prosecution of a case
that the defendant will not be prosecuted and (2) that the
defendant has acted on that representation to his detriment.
Even then, if facts come to light which were not known when the
representation was made, these may justify proceeding with the
prosecution despite the representation.”
These principles apply to decisions to issue a fixed penalty
notice or to caution:
Has an unequivocal representation been made that this is to be
the disposal?
Has the suspect acted to their detriment by accepting this
alternative disposal?
Have further facts come to light?”
You’ve acted to your detriment by taking the course in Lieu of
prosecution only for them to prosecute anyway.
#Post#: 91467--------------------------------------------------
Re: Urgent help please! speeding case later today
DIR By: 666
Date: September 25, 2025, 8:50 am
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--- Quote from: disgruntchelt link ---
>
> From the CPS website
>
> “Examples of when it may be said to be unfair to try the
defendant
> Proceedings begun or continued in breach of promise not to
prosecute
> In Hamza [2006] EWCA Crim 2918, the Court of Appeal confirmed
that the authorities “suggest that that it is not likely to
constitute an abuse of process to proceed with a prosecution
unless (1) there has been an unequivocal representation by those
with the conduct of the investigation or prosecution of a case
that the defendant will not be prosecuted and (2) that the
defendant has acted on that representation to his detriment.
Even then, if facts come to light which were not known when the
representation was made, these may justify proceeding with the
prosecution despite the representation.”
>
> These principles apply to decisions to issue a fixed penalty
notice or to caution:
>
> Has an unequivocal representation been made that this is to be
the disposal?
> Has the suspect acted to their detriment by accepting this
alternative disposal?
> Have further facts come to light?”
>
> You’ve acted to your detriment by taking the course in Lieu of
prosecution only for them to prosecute anyway.
>
--- End Quote ---
The OP was offered and accepted a course in respect of offence
2.
He is not now being prosecuted for that offence, but for two
other offences.
This is probably academic: he may already have been tried and
found guilty of those.
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