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#Post#: 9606--------------------------------------------------
Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton
(Bus Lane) E10
DIR By: S.M
Date: November 8, 2023, 12:39 pm
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--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
> Please to post up the rejection.
>
--- End Quote ---
HTML https://i.ibb.co/1qSJ5Kj/PCN1.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/WyTpwFj
HTML https://i.ibb.co/1ZWwyLQ/PCN2.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/4Wr5v7t
HTML https://i.ibb.co/z66F6Mf/PCN3.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/xFFYFk5
#Post#: 9609--------------------------------------------------
Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton
(Bus Lane) E10
DIR By: S.M
Date: November 8, 2023, 12:56 pm
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Am I correct in saying that I should now wait for them to send
me the enforcement notice after 14 days and make a formal
representation to WFC again?
Then if that gets rejected they will send me another appeal form
to go to the adjudicator?
Thanks
#Post#: 9622--------------------------------------------------
Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton
(Bus Lane) E10
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: November 8, 2023, 2:50 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: S.M link ---
>
> Am I correct in saying that I should now wait for them to send
me the enforcement notice after 14 days and make a formal
representation to WFC again?
>
> Then if that gets rejected they will send me another appeal
form to go to the adjudicator?
> Thanks
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes
Video Please.
The template rejection is just that and doesn't cover your point
on the sign being turned.
It seems to imply that you drove along the bus lane, the photos
imply that you drove in and parked.
I don't know which one it is but the answer is critical and the
video will show.
Markings for a bus lane cannot coincide with pedestrian crossing
markings.
But that doesn't mean that the bus lane doesn't exist at the
crossing.
Motorists are expected to know this.
It was one long bus lane with one sign turned out of many
#Post#: 9624--------------------------------------------------
Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton
(Bus Lane) E10
DIR By: S.M
Date: November 8, 2023, 3:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DancingDad link ---
>
> [quote author=S.M link=topic=817.msg9609#msg9609
date=1699469795]
> Am I correct in saying that I should now wait for them to send
me the enforcement notice after 14 days and make a formal
representation to WFC again?
>
> Then if that gets rejected they will send me another appeal
form to go to the adjudicator?
> Thanks
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes
Video Please.
The template rejection is just that and doesn't cover your point
on the sign being turned.
It seems to imply that you drove along the bus lane, the photos
imply that you drove in and parked.
I don't know which one it is but the answer is critical and the
video will show.
Markings for a bus lane cannot coincide with pedestrian crossing
markings.
But that doesn't mean that the bus lane doesn't exist at the
crossing.
Motorists are expected to know this.
It was one long bus lane with one sign turned out of many
[/quote]
Here's the video.
HTML https://gemoo.com/tools/upload-video/share/578780036247695360?codeId=PYxVwa95pxj1L&card=578780032841920512
For clarity, there's a break between the bus lane of around 50m
and further down the road the signage is not properly set either
#Post#: 9625--------------------------------------------------
Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton
(Bus Lane) E10
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: November 8, 2023, 3:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for video.
There is no break in the bus lane, simply in the markings as
required by statute.
It confirms what I suspected, parked.
And shows what seems to be the driver taking a photo of the sign
at about 23 seconds into the video????
If that is the case, I would grab the discount,
To me it shows that you may have erred due to the defective sign
but not only checked the sign but photographed it.
Had you moved the motor then, I reckon a fair to good chance of
a win.
But as it is, an adjudicator is going to see you checking the
sign and ignoring it.
To me that is a loss.
Others may have different views.
#Post#: 9641--------------------------------------------------
Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton
(Bus Lane) E10
DIR By: S.M
Date: November 8, 2023, 6:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DancingDad link ---
>
> Thanks for video.
> There is no break in the bus lane, simply in the markings as
required by statute.
>
> It confirms what I suspected, parked.
> And shows what seems to be the driver taking a photo of the
sign at about 23 seconds into the video????
> If that is the case, I would grab the discount,
> To me it shows that you may have erred due to the defective
sign but not only checked the sign but photographed it.
> Had you moved the motor then, I reckon a fair to good chance
of a win.
> But as it is, an adjudicator is going to see you checking the
sign and ignoring it.
> To me that is a loss.
>
> Others may have different views.
>
--- End Quote ---
What i mean by break is that the bus lane is not continuous.
Shouldn't a bus lane sign be visible after each "break"? in this
case it's a crossing and if you check further down there's
another "break" due to a side road where they've put another
sign (this one isn't properly visible either)
Shouldn't the sign be sufficiently visible in order for it to be
enforceable? Bear in mind it was raining and at night. My
assumption is that the previous stretch doesn't have any effect
on this one as it is common occurrence in London where you may
have different timings on different stretch. Please bear in mind
i didn't actually park on a double yellow etc. It was an actual
parking spot, a pay and display but not operational after 6.30pm
Here's a pic i took recently
HTML https://i.ibb.co/dLKSbp0/IMG-20231103-141624.jpg
And here's the Google map link 421 A112
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/qDyWAMz9z1idzQW69
#Post#: 9654--------------------------------------------------
Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton
(Bus Lane) E10
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: November 9, 2023, 5:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
You are looking at it as a binary, yes or no answer.
But sign lore is subjective and can very much depend on
circumstances.
There are circumstances where there MUST be a sign and it must
be visible.
This is not one of them except that the authority have chosen to
put a sign and as such, it should be visible.
That the authority have failed to maintain and times are not
readily visible is all on your side.
But there is no statutory imperative that says that a sign must
be there and must be visible.
Traffic Signs Manual doesn't require such a sign after a
crossing and even after a break for a side road only says
should, not must.
I may be being unduly pessimistic and have explained my reasons.
Others may disagree and believe your point of view is valid.
It is your choice but please make no mistake, it is not as cut
and dried as you believe.
#Post#: 9683--------------------------------------------------
Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton
(Bus Lane) E10
DIR By: S.M
Date: November 9, 2023, 12:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DancingDad link ---
>
> You are looking at it as a binary, yes or no answer.
> But sign lore is subjective and can very much depend on
circumstances.
> There are circumstances where there MUST be a sign and it must
be visible.
> This is not one of them except that the authority have chosen
to put a sign and as such, it should be visible.
> That the authority have failed to maintain and times are not
readily visible is all on your side.
> But there is no statutory imperative that says that a sign
must be there and must be visible.
> Traffic Signs Manual doesn't require such a sign after a
crossing and even after a break for a side road only says
should, not must.
>
> I may be being unduly pessimistic and have explained my
reasons.
> Others may disagree and believe your point of view is valid.
> It is your choice but please make no mistake, it is not as cut
and dried as you believe.
>
--- End Quote ---
My apologies, I thought after every new stretch of Bus lane
there must be a sign that is visible. I thought this was law. I
have seen many places where on one stretch you have a bus lane
at all times and right after a pedestrian crossing you have a
timed bus lane.
If as you say traffic law isn`t required after a side road, what
would happen if someone was to come out of the side road which
further down and take a left onto the bus lane which has no
sign? It just doesn`t make sense.
Let`s see what the others mention about this particular case.
Thanks
#Post#: 9684--------------------------------------------------
Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton
(Bus Lane) E10
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: November 9, 2023, 12:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The side road should have a warning sign.
#Post#: 9713--------------------------------------------------
Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton
(Bus Lane) E10
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 9, 2023, 4:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
OP, you have the absolute right in law to take them to the
adjudicators at London Tribunals, but as you can see there is
varying opinion on your chances. If the discount option has
gone, it is obviously a no-brainer to do so, but if it's still
available, you need to think carefully whether you should risk
the extra £65.
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