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#Post#: 9376--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: fttboy
Date: November 6, 2023, 10:03 am
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Agree. Will do.
#Post#: 9380--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: November 6, 2023, 10:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Within your write up there is not reason not to use the
appropriate Grounds as headings
ie The Contravention Did Not Occur (due to Inadequate Signage)
Procedural Impropriety etc
#Post#: 12610--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: fttboy
Date: December 17, 2023, 6:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi all,
AN UPDATE on representation
Luton Borough council replied to the representation with a
NOTICE OF REJECTION which I have attached below. I received this
in post on Saturday 16th Dec 2023.
The main reason for rejection is relating to the signage; they
appear to take a different view of the regulation that " sign
should normally be erected within 15m of the start and end of
the prohibition"
They argue that "this refers to the beginning and the end of
the restriction, not during the restriction". see pages 2-3 of
notice of rejection attached.
Finally, they reinstituted the discounted charge of £35 which
must be paid before 28/12/2023.
Thanks for your thoughts. And best compliments of the season
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 12611--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: December 17, 2023, 6:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Frankly, I don't think you have a slam-dunk win here, and as
they have reinstated the discount, you need to consider if it is
worth taking the double-or-quits gamble at TPT.
#Post#: 12627--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: December 18, 2023, 5:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
IMO, it's as near a slam dunk as one can get.
'Notice to Owner Date' is given.
'Date of Posting' is given.
The NTO is only required to carry the 'a)the date of the notice,
which must be the date on which the notice is posted,'
It's not for the authority to subsequently try and define the
meaning of their terms in a NOR. Too late. Had they complied
with the regs then no further explanation would have been
required.
OP, register an appeal - 'procedural impropriety'.
By leading with signs in your reps this opened the flood gates
to them waffling on, an opportunity which they embraced with
both hands. I recommend you do not do this in your appeal. Lead
with your strongest point - because this evidence is objective -
and add signs if you must do.
If the authority have any sense they will not contest. But I
have a feeling that they actually believe in their position and
so would have to be disabused of this by an adjudicator. My
feelings here are supported by the way in which dates have been
dealt with in the NOR:
Top of page 1 - a date (18 Dec.) without a reference;
Details of PCN/Notice to Owner - Date of Notice 18 Dec.
Section 3 - references payment and appeals periods to 28 days
beginning on date of service of 'Notice of Rejection'. So when
is this, 2 working days after 18th or after 14th.
This is not a b****y guessing game.
But as it's clear that their processes are geared to ignoring
the regs and instead using Luton-defined terms and dates they'll
probably contest at adjudication.
IMO, they should not stand a hope in hell.
Wait for others.
#Post#: 12687--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: fttboy
Date: December 19, 2023, 10:57 am
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Thanks for your thoughts [member=12]Incandescent[/member] and
@HC Andersen.
It'll be interesting to hear what others think.
#Post#: 12697--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: December 19, 2023, 5:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Do be aware that if you take them to adjudication, the full PCN
penalty will be in play. My opinion is that you will lose, but
HCA thinks it is a slam-dunk win. Hard to choose, isn't it !
You could look at what the Earl of Montrose said in such
circumstances: -
"He either fears his fate too much
Or his deserts are small
Who fears to put it to the touch
To win, or lose it all"
Sorry to say, the Earl lost and was hanged, drawn, and
quartered, in Edinburgh on 21st May 1650.
This fate does not await you, however !
#Post#: 12709--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: baroudeur
Date: December 20, 2023, 4:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
As someone local who uses that road for parking (main hospital
and a treatment centre within walking distance!) could someone
comment on the signage please?
The road is a cul-de-sac and the SYL is continuous all the way
round. There is a sign on the right immediately on entering,
one on each side 'halfway' up, and another at the turning circle
at the top end. Does this constitute a continuous length of SYL
or are signs required on both left and right sides? Afaik (and
GSV back to 2009 confirms) there has never been a sign on the
left at the start of the line.
#Post#: 12898--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: fttboy
Date: December 24, 2023, 7:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: baroudeur link ---
>
> As someone local who uses that road for parking (main hospital
and a treatment centre within walking distance!) could someone
comment on the signage please?
>
> The road is a cul-de-sac and the SYL is continuous all the way
round. There is a sign on the right immediately on entering,
one on each side 'halfway' up, and another at the turning circle
at the top end. Does this constitute a continuous length of SYL
or are signs required on both left and right sides? Afaik (and
GSV back to 2009 confirms) there has never been a sign on the
left at the start of the line.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hi,
I have been back on that road and confirm that there are no
signs at the start of the street on either side. And judging by
Luton council LOR their interpretation of the regulation is that
it is not required.
I thought that the part of the regulation that requires sign
within 15m of the start and end of the prohibition is related to
position of the sign.
But the council seem to take the view that this refers to the
beginning and end of the restriction, not during the
restriction. Suggesting that requirement is prohibition time ie
9 - 11 specific only. [cf pg 2 of LOR]. Or am I mis-interpreting
that section? Any contrary views?
Anyhow permit me to wish you all a Merry Christmas.
#Post#: 12902--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: baroudeur
Date: December 24, 2023, 9:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Is this sign
HTML http://tinyurl.com/nhjp95u6
now missing? It's immediately after
the end of the DYL as you enter Belper Road.
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