DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 9131--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 4, 2023, 3:17 am
---------------------------------------------------------
There was response to the challenge to say that it was rejected.
I don't quite follow. Did they reply or not, do you have a copy
and in what form?
In any event, you will make reps to the authority on the grounds
of procedural impropriety.
As a framework:
Dear Sir,
PCN ***********
I refer to the NTO in respect of the above, see copy enclosed.
As you will see, the notice gives a 'Notice to Owner Date' of 11
October 2023 and a 'Date of Posting' of 9 October. This is a
procedural impropriety because the date of the notice is clearly
not the date it was posted. The NTO is further rendered improper
because the recipient is unable to assess which date, if either,
is the date of posting which therefore renders all subsequent
references to payment and appeals meaningless because they can
only be calculated by reference to the date of service which
itself is predicated on the date of posting. I would also add
that even if these could be calculated the notice's statement
that the penalty will be increased(as opposed to 'may' which is
prescribed under the regulations) is a further impropriety.
Hugs....
#Post#: 9139--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: fttboy
Date: November 4, 2023, 6:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Sorry for the confusion..typo!
I did not receive rejection of my representation. There was
email acknowledging the challenge..below
Dear...
Thank you for submitting your appeal using the Luton Borough
Council's ChallengeSmarti website.
Your challenge has been received and allocated to your case.
Please note that your case will remain on hold until a decision
has been made.
Do not make payment until you have received a response to your
challenge. Payment is deemed as acceptance of liability and the
case will be closed.
Regards
Luton Borough Council's Appeals Team
Case number: LU06800240
Vehicle registration:
Contravention: 01 - No waiting
Date and time of contravention: 03/07/2023 10:57
Reason for appeal: 'I didn't see any signs or lines'
#Post#: 9204--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 4, 2023, 2:58 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
To be honest it would be much better if people embedded pictures
rather than relying on attachments that need to be opened next
time, for our sanity here is the NTO agian:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/1tW422G.png
[member=385]fttboy[/member] HCA has identified a fundamental
flaw in the NTO, and as a result your chances of success have
gone from maybe 60-70% to well over 90%.
I recommend you send his draft, and you can add a line or two
about the signage being inadequate if you want.
The deadline to make representations is Tuesday so I wouldn't
wait any further, go onto the council website
HTML https://www.luton.gov.uk/Page/Show
and submit the representation
asap, and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
#Post#: 9215--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: November 4, 2023, 3:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
And.........
The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Approved
Devices, Charging Guidelines and General Provisions) (England)
Regulations 2022
Notice to owner
20.—(1) Where—
(a)a penalty charge notice has been given with respect to a
vehicle under regulation 9, and
(b)the period of 28 days specified in the penalty charge notice
as the period within which the penalty charge is to be paid has
expired without that charge being paid,
the enforcement authority concerned may serve a notice (a
“notice to owner”) on the person who appears to it to have been
the owner of the vehicle when the alleged contravention
occurred.
(2) A notice to owner may not be served after the expiry of the
period of 6 months beginning with the relevant date.
(3) A notice to owner must, in addition to the matters required
to be included in it under regulation 3(2) of the 2022 Appeals
Regulations, state—
(a)the date of the notice, which must be the date on which the
notice is posted,
(b)the name of the enforcement authority serving the notice,
(c)the amount of the penalty charge payable,
(d)the date on which the penalty charge notice was served,
(e)the grounds on which the civil enforcement officer who served
the penalty charge notice under regulation 9 believed that a
penalty charge was payable with respect to the vehicle,
(f)that the penalty charge, if not already paid, must be paid
within “the payment period” as defined by regulation 3(2)(a) of
the 2022 Appeals Regulations,
(g)that if, after the payment period has expired, no
representations have been made under regulation 5 of the 2022
Appeals Regulations and the penalty charge has not been paid,
the enforcement authority may increase the penalty charge by the
applicable surcharge, and
(h)the amount of the increased penalty charge.
#Post#: 9259--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: fttboy
Date: November 4, 2023, 9:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks all.
I'll draft the challenge ASAP and send
#Post#: 9262--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: November 5, 2023, 4:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Start with inadequate signage, add the flaw as a PI second,
amost an afterthought.
Council may cancel on signage rather then have flaws in their
paperwork exposed
Similarly TPT adjudicators generally prefer to have a possibly
innocent motorist then a guilty one trying to weasel out with a
technical challenge
#Post#: 9286--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: fttboy
Date: November 5, 2023, 11:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi all,
this be draft representation I'm looking to send. I tried to
capture most of the arguments proffered above...excessive or too
little? let me know your mind
Dear Luton Borough Council,
Parking Services,
Town Hall, Luton
LU1 2BQ
Dear Sir,
PCN Number: LU06800240
I refer to the NTO in respect of the above PCN, see copy
enclosed. I hereby make representation on the grounds of
procedural impropriety on behalf of the authority.
[1]As you will see, the notice gives a 'Notice to Owner Date' of
11 October 2023 and a 'Date of Posting' of 9 October. This is a
procedural impropriety because the date of the notice is clearly
not the date it was posted. The NTO is further rendered improper
because the recipient is unable to assess which date, if either,
is the date of posting which therefore renders all subsequent
references to payment and appeals meaningless because they can
only be calculated by reference to the date of service which
itself is predicated on the date of posting.
The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Approved
Devices, Charging Guidelines and General Provisions) (England)
Regulations 2022 Notice to owner
20.—(1) Where—
(a)a penalty charge notice has been given with respect
to a vehicle under regulation 9, and
(3) A notice to owner must, in addition to the matters required
to be included in it under regulation 3(2) of the 2022 Appeals
Regulations, state—
(a)the date of the notice, which must be the date on which the
notice is posted,
[2] the notice's statement that the penalty will be increased
(as opposed to 'may' which is prescribed under the regulations)
is a further impropriety. [cf Regulation 2022 section 20 (3)
(g)]
(g)that if, after the payment period has expired, no
representations have been made under regulation 5 of the 2022
Appeals Regulations and the penalty charge has not been paid,
the enforcement authority may increase the penalty charge by the
applicable surcharge,
[3] signage was inadequate as there was no sign within the
required distance of start of the prohibition [Traffic Signs
Manual 3:13.4.15.  A sign should normally be erected
within 15 m of the start and end of the prohibition]
[4] I believe that council has acted improperly and in breach of
regulations for the above reasons; and request that this PCN be
cancelled
Yours faithfully,
#Post#: 9290--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 5, 2023, 11:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
As DancingDad says, the signage point should come first so
points should be about the signage, and shift the other points
down.
#Post#: 9339--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: fttboy
Date: November 5, 2023, 11:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi,
I went on Luton website to submit appeal but the grounds of
representation are not exactly the same as in the NTO. The
option of
- There has been a procedural impropriety on behalf of the
authority
[which is the premise of appeal is missing]
The closest 2 options amongst others I think are the two below
but these do not quite mean the same as impropriety on behalf of
authority.
I wonder if best to go with None of the above
see attached screenshot
Others
I didn't see any signs or lines
The signs / markings were unclear
None of the above
If none of the above reasons apply, and you wish to challenge
your PCN, please select below:
Select a reason:
Any other reason
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 9346--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: November 6, 2023, 3:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
None of the above
*****************************************************
Page 2 of 4
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page