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#Post#: 8594--------------------------------------------------
Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: fttboy
Date: October 28, 2023, 3:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hello,
on 3rd July this year I got PCN for parking in a restricted
street during prescribed hours. On the council website showing
the car parked on the said street there was also what would
appear to be the signage indicating the prohibited hours of
09:00-11:00 hours.
However, in reality there was no sign when I packed and
certainly none when I arrived to find the PCN. So I took
pictures of the street from different directions with PCN still
in place under the windscreen wiper blade. I then made
representation on the council website uploading pictures that
clearly show that there was no signage at the time of alleged
contravention. I couldn't tell you where the civil enforcement
officer obtained the signage posted on the website; it was not
from that location. I got acknowledgement by way of email.
I didn't receive any further correspondence from Luton until
some days ago when I got Notice to the owner by post, saying
that the penalty charge has not been paid. And the amount due is
£70 (I challenged the PCN within the discount period of 14
days). it appears to me that council failed to consider my
representation (online) and accompanying evidence. And have
simple ratcheted up their right to enforce.
How should go about challenging this now? See attached documents
Thanking you for your kind assistance
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 8596--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: fttboy
Date: October 28, 2023, 4:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi,
I have attached rest of documents from Luton council including
the email reply I got for initial representation.
In the email I note disparity in the meaning of code 01 (is it
no waiting or restricted parking), and I wonder if that is
another issue I can highlight in challenging this.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 8597--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: fttboy
Date: October 28, 2023, 4:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
And more pictures that show no signage, all of which I included
in my rep to council
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 8611--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 28, 2023, 6:33 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Well, here's a sign on Belper Road (GSV March 2019).
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/NSJqBHnqN5tsoEbU6
and here's another
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/ur59onFVQHqJTypw6
and another
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/cWoV5kSnyeVLUxAD6
and yet another
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/gx944q8WRVqpdmLW9
Sorry, but I don't think your argument of lack of signage will
wash on this fairly short street, but see what the others say.
Of course these signs may no longer be there, as latest GSV is
2019
Note
You've called all your documents a PCN, but you have received
the Notice to Owner, so must either pay or submit
representations. At this stage the discounted amount is lost, so
unless they re-offer it when rejecting your representations, it
will be a no-brainer to take them to the Traffic Penalty
Tribunal. If you're going for lack of signage, you're going to
have to do some leg work to prove lack of signs, as GSV view is
of 4 years ago
#Post#: 8673--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: October 29, 2023, 2:10 pm
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I think you have an argument to make around the signage. Looking
at this council photo:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/3yOSYcN.jpg
it is clear you were parked here
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/jyoVSdfFpDPeTaXT6
opposite the garage
with the white doors:
The CEO took a photo of this sign:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/yPVv6U2.jpg
I'm not sure if it's the same sign but the nearest one I would
find is here:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/54ib63LHbBYQabk88
Assuming that's the nearest sign, it would be over 45 yards from
your car:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/jP9gtHT.png
Incandescent has identified some other signs, but signs that are
either on the other side of the road or completely out of sight
don't count. The Traffic Signs Manual at chapter 3 says:
[indent]
13.4.15.  A sign should normally be erected within
15 m of the start and end of the prohibition
[/indent]
15 metres is 16.4 yards, and in this case the only sign on that
side of the road is over 80 yards from the start of the
prohibition (which starts at the junction with Dunstable Road.
However before going all-in on this argument, are you able to go
back and check if the signage situation has changed at all since
the google car last went round? We don't need any photos, we
just need you to tell us if the signs visible on google street
view in 2019 are still the only signs there.
I've also requested the traffic regulation order for this
location.
#Post#: 8805--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: fttboy
Date: October 31, 2023, 12:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi all,
thank you for taking time to look at this. I really appreciate.
I will check and confirm the signage and let you know
#Post#: 8981--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: fttboy
Date: November 2, 2023, 2:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure if it's the same sign but the nearest one I would
find is here:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/54ib63LHbBYQabk88
Assuming that's the nearest sign, it would be over 45 yards from
your car
Hi,
I can confirm that this is the nearest sign even as of now
#Post#: 8985--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: November 2, 2023, 2:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It is certainly a valid argument though ultimately will depend
on an adjudicator.
Should also be noted that there is almost a 4 minute difference
between the sign photo and the contravention photos, indicative
of some distance between locations.
To be fair the timing does coincide with observation times.
Council will argue that the motorist has a duty to check
restriction signs when parking.
The opposite also applies that councils have a duty to clearly
sign restrictions.
While it is clear from the SYL that a restriction may apply but
the nearest sign being 45 yards away and more like 60 yards from
the point of entry to the road, this can hardly be said to
clearly sign
#Post#: 8993--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: November 2, 2023, 5:53 am
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OP, I want to broaden the discussion pl.
You challenged online but did not receive a substantive
response. So, have you contacted them to ask what's happened?
You then posted: 'some days ago I received a NTO..'. Some days!!
You posted this on Oct 29th and the NTO is dated 11 October!
....or is it???
The NTO states:
'Notice to Owner Date: 11/10/2023
Date of Posting: 9/10/2023'
Neat trick and IMO a virtually guaranteed win at representations
or adjudication, as is '...the council will increase the penalty
charge by 50% and serve a charge certificate'!
3) A notice to owner must, in addition to the matters required
to be included in it under regulation 3(2) of the 2022 Appeals
Regulations, state—
(a)the date of the notice, which must be the date on which the
notice is posted,
So I wouldn't get too hung up on signs.
#Post#: 9130--------------------------------------------------
Re: Luton PCN: contravention code 01 parked in restricted street
during prescribed hours
DIR By: fttboy
Date: November 4, 2023, 12:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi,
I believe that the NTO would have arrived on 11/10/2023 or the
following day although I didn't see it until some days later.
I did not contact Luton council after I challenged online and
received email acknowledging the same. There was response to the
challenge to say that it was rejected.
How should I proceed now? Based on argument re: sign. Or is
there any other way?
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