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#Post#: 90564--------------------------------------------------
Ealing - 62:Parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath
(CHALLENGE DENIED)
DIR By: miirder
Date: September 18, 2025, 4:03 pm
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Firstly, I just discovered this forum so unfortunately have
already challenged this and had it denied. Details are below.
All images including PCN images, Notice of decline of challenge
letter, my images of position of car at time of PCN, google map
showing the area.
HTML https://imgur.com/a/qiultro
As you can see in the images, my wheels are pretty much inline
with the curb, any closer and my cars at risk of being
sideswiped (this happened to my van a year ago). Additionally,
the markings for the bay parallel to the road are non existent
or in poor condition. Their pictures conveniently didn’t include
images closest to the road (these are attached). This road is a
residents permit area of which I am a holder of. I'm aware of
the blue sign showing half the car on the pavement and half on
the road. With this being a single yellow line, I'm unsure if
parking like this would be allowed. My family has NEVER seen
cars parked half on the pavement in the 20+ years theyve lived
here, so I would be hesitant to be the first person doing so,
considering this is a fairly busy road.
If we’re going to be pedantic, their resident permit policy
states vehicles over 1.83m in width are not permitted. Curbstone
to paver this bay measures 1.825m. The inside of the curb to
paver measures 1.67m. I was approx 20cm over the supposed bay.
There’s 1.7m of pavement still left, not causing a hindrance to
pedestrians. We have been parking in bays on this road for 20
years+, never had a problem until this PCN was served. I have a
feeling this was done as they have recently resurfaced this and
local roads including the white parking bay lines, although
these have not been painted on this road yet, so are still in
poor condition.
Any guidance on whether this is worth taking further to
tribunal, or if I am indeed in the wrong, would be appreciated
Many thanks
K
#Post#: 90573--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing - 62:Parked with one or more wheels on or over a
footpath (CHALLENGE DENIED)
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 18, 2025, 6:21 pm
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I think if it was me, I would be taking them to adjudication,
because the sign is clear, parking where you parked is permitted
off-carriageway. There is nothing on the sign to demand you park
in a marked bay, and I suspect the resolution that the council
MUST pass to allow off-carriageway parking will probably only
name the street and nothing else.
Their letter is also complete tosh because they say
off-carriageway parking is not permitted at this location when
it quite clearly is. I suspect if you register an appeal with
London Tribunals they will not contest it, but you'll only find
out if you take the matter forward.
#Post#: 90632--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing - 62:Parked with one or more wheels on or over a
footpath (CHALLENGE DENIED)
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: September 19, 2025, 7:06 am
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Post the PCN and your challenge.
What is the Google Maps location.
Looks like nonsense as they say footway parking is not allowed
at this location so have just sent a template.
Have you posted all the council pics?
The sign suggests 2-wheel up parking on the footway but the
yellow line rules that out so the all wheel up bay looks like
what it is.
So no contravention.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/GQ1fBk65/SJVbpPH.png
HTML https://i.imgur.com/yKPoLPW.png
HTML https://i.ibb.co/VcZwJ4KV/RLoVE0v.png
HTML https://i.ibb.co/FbpLBy4f/compCGm.png
HTML https://i.ibb.co/svNpPdjM/uF8ZrWw.png
#Post#: 90647--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing - 62:Parked with one or more wheels on or over a
footpath (CHALLENGE DENIED)
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: September 19, 2025, 8:14 am
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IMO...
I'd love for this to get to adjudication!
OP, I'll break down the absolute nonsense of the markings and
signs.
1. Let's take the footway parking sign ahead. In combination
sith the left-facing arrow this means that, subject to other
prevailing limitations, parking of vehs of no more than '1750kg
unladen' may park with 2 wheels on the footway.
2. Now for the parking place markings. Item 6 of the Part 4 sign
table of Schedule 7 to the Traffic Signs etc. Regs means that
the 'edge of carriageway' may be used to indicate one of the
longitudinal boundaries of a parking place.
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/7
In addition, the traffic sign used is of the form prescribed at
Item 2 of Part 4 of Schedule 4 to the Regs and states that
parking is permitted for permit holders between the hours of
Mon-Sat 10am-8pm and Sun 2pm-8pm.
It is NOT the item prescribed at Item 3.
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/4
3. Now for the yellow line. This indicates that waiting, which
includes parking, is not permitted from the back of the building
line, including the footway(where the so-called parking place is
located) to the centre-line of the road. This is within a CPZ
whose restrictions are Mon-Sat 10am-8pm, Sun 2pm-8pm. Now where
have I seen these hours before??
So, in combination we have:
A parking place whose boundaries are described by one set of
longitudinal white markings, one set of perpendicular white
markings and the kerb representing the edge of the carriageway.
There are NO markings on the carriageway.
Therefore IF a motorist parks wholly within the markings, which
they must, then they are IN CONTRAVENTION because the parking
traffic sign does NOT permit parking on the footway and
therefore the prevailing restriction is the 2-wheel footway
parking sign which applies 24/7, BUT YOU HAVE TO PARK WITH 4
WHEELS TO STAY WITHIN THE MARKINGS!
Then we have the yellow line which prohibits parking for all the
hours referred to in the traffic sign anyway!
The only lawful outcome is that NO-ONE can park wholly within
the markings between the specified hours and that anyone may
park a vehicle of no more than 1750kg unladen weight with 2
wheels only within the parking place during unspecified hours.
As most medium-sized electric vehicles tip the scales at more
than 1750kg as do many IC-engined vehicles then these aren't
permitted on the footway at all and would have to park wholly in
the road.
And it looks like this nonsense has persisted for years.
Hey ho!
#Post#: 91141--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing - 62:Parked with one or more wheels on or over a
footpath (CHALLENGE DENIED)
DIR By: miirder
Date: September 23, 2025, 11:40 am
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--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> Post the PCN and your challenge.
>
> What is the Google Maps location.
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/VxJbD7V3iYCDCB9B6
>
> Looks like nonsense as they say footway parking is not allowed
at this location so have just sent a template.
>
> Have you posted all the council pics? All 6 of the council
pictures are in the imgur gallery
>
> The sign suggests 2-wheel up parking on the footway but the
yellow line rules that out so the all wheel up bay looks like
what it is.
>
> So no contravention.
>
--- End Quote ---
My challenge is in the imgur gallery as are all 6 of the council
pictures
#Post#: 91146--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing - 62:Parked with one or more wheels on or over a
footpath (CHALLENGE DENIED)
DIR By: miirder
Date: September 23, 2025, 12:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> IMO...
>
> I'd love for this to get to adjudication!
>
> OP, I'll break down the absolute nonsense of the markings and
signs.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you for the in depth explanation. From what I understand,
Ealing dont have a leg to stand on, as their own signs and
markings contradict eachother. What would the next steps for me
to take? It looks like going off the letter, I have to wait 28
days for a notice to owner to be sent to me, which I them have
to submit a formal representation. Is this typically done in
person in a court setting? Do I need to contact a lawyer?
Many thanks
#Post#: 91152--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing - 62:Parked with one or more wheels on or over a
footpath (CHALLENGE DENIED)
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: September 23, 2025, 12:15 pm
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This is the enforcement process:
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/parking-penalty-charge-notice-enforcement-process
Are you the registered keeper with current DVLA details?
If so, simply wait for the NTO and we'll help you draft formal
representations.
Don't forget, the authority is still 'judge in its own cause' so
be prepared for General Melchett to respond i.e. 'If nothing
else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in
the face will see us through.' AKA do you expect the council to
change years of administrative practice and pay to remedy its
signage debacle just because of your reps?
So, reps rejected; appeal lodged; authority doesn't contest; you
win AND then they carry on in their ill-informed, unlawful and
merry way to penalise more motorists.
Truth IS stranger than fiction.
#Post#: 91153--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing - 62:Parked with one or more wheels on or over a
footpath (CHALLENGE DENIED)
DIR By: roythebus
Date: September 23, 2025, 12:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
No, you don't need to pay for a lawyer. It does not go to court,
but the traffic penalty tribunal. There's some splendid
volunteers here who may offer to represent you.
In one of the council pics there is what appears to be a yellow
sign taped or cable tied to a post. could that be a notice
suspending parking in that area?
#Post#: 91159--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing - 62:Parked with one or more wheels on or over a
footpath (CHALLENGE DENIED)
DIR By: miirder
Date: September 23, 2025, 12:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> This is the enforcement process:
>
>
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/understanding-enforcement-process/parking-penalty-charge-notice-enforcement-process
>
> Are you the registered keeper with current DVLA details?
>
> If so, simply wait for the NTO and we'll help you draft formal
representations.
>
> Don't forget, the authority is still 'judge in its own cause'
so be prepared for General Melchett to respond i.e. 'If nothing
else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in
the face will see us through.' AKA do you expect the council to
change years of administrative practice and pay to remedy its
signage debacle just because of your reps?
>
> So, reps rejected; appeal lodged; authority doesn't contest;
you win AND then they carry on in their ill-informed, unlawful
and merry way to penalise more motorists.
>
> Truth IS stranger than fiction.
>
--- End Quote ---
I am the registered keeper yes. Its weird as mentioned before,
my family has been parking like this for 20+ years, never got a
ticket until now. I will keep an eye out for the NTO and will
post an update when I recieve it.
Thanks
#Post#: 91160--------------------------------------------------
Re: Ealing - 62:Parked with one or more wheels on or over a
footpath (CHALLENGE DENIED)
DIR By: miirder
Date: September 23, 2025, 12:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: roythebus link ---
>
> No, you don't need to pay for a lawyer. It does not go to
court, but the traffic penalty tribunal. There's some splendid
volunteers here who may offer to represent you.
>
> In one of the council pics there is what appears to be a
yellow sign taped or cable tied to a post. could that be a
notice suspending parking in that area?
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks for the reply. I will look into representation when the
time comes.
The yellow sign would be a planning permission thing, where the
council notifies local residents of proposed building works
where they can object etc, I often see them on lamposts near me.
It is defintely not a suspended parking sign.
Thanks
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