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#Post#: 90665--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Borough of Bexley, stopped in a restricted area
outside of school, Victoria road (contravention code 48J)
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: September 19, 2025, 9:39 am
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Pl don't overthink this.
Contravention did not occur
The markings shown in the council's video are those prescribed
for use at Item 10 of Part 4 of Schedule 7 to the Traffic Signs
etc. Regulations 2016 which apply in this case. The prohibition
is as follows:
Part of the carriageway outside an entrance where....vehicles
should, or must, not stop.
Therefore in this case the only issue at large is whether I was
stopped on 'part of the carriageway' to which the sign applies.
The answer is in the authority's own evidence which is a video
showing my car parked on that part of the carriageway beyond the
centre-line and therefore not a part of the carriageway to which
the restriction applies.
If the authority considers that any part of my car was parked on
that part of the carriageway to which the prohibition applies
then they must reject these representations.
However, the council's video and this extract from a recent
decision of adjudicator Michael Burke (ETA case reference
2250155724) would suggest that to take such a position would be
at best frivolous and at worst an abuse of the council's power:
'The school markings indicate a prohibition which extends to the
mid-point of the carriageway.
The Appellant could have pulled over to the left-hand side of
the road in order to drop off his passenger but he remained in
the centre of the carriageway with a significant section of the
vehicle on the side of the carriageway prohibited by the school
markings.'
The PCN must be cancelled.
#Post#: 90678--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Borough of Bexley, stopped in a restricted area
outside of school, Victoria road (contravention code 48J)
DIR By: Vince138
Date: September 19, 2025, 11:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> Pl don't overthink this.
>
> Contravention did not occur
>
> The markings shown in the council's video are those prescribed
for use at Item 10 of Part 4 of Schedule 7 to the Traffic Signs
etc. Regulations 2016 which apply in this case. The prohibition
is as follows:
>
> Part of the carriageway outside an entrance where....vehicles
should, or must, not stop.
>
> Therefore in this case the only issue at large is whether I
was stopped on 'part of the carriageway' to which the sign
applies.
>
> The answer is in the authority's own evidence which is a video
showing my car parked on that part of the carriageway beyond the
centre-line and therefore not a part of the carriageway to which
the restriction applies.
>
> If the authority considers that any part of my car was parked
on that part of the carriageway to which the prohibition applies
then they must reject these representations.
>
> However, the council's video and this extract from a recent
decision of adjudicator Michael Burke (ETA case reference
2250155724) would suggest that to take such a position would be
at best frivolous and at worst an abuse of the council's power:
>
> 'The school markings indicate a prohibition which extends to
the mid-point of the carriageway.
> The Appellant could have pulled over to the left-hand side of
the road in order to drop off his passenger but he remained in
the centre of the carriageway with a significant section of the
vehicle on the side of the carriageway prohibited by the school
markings.'
>
> The PCN must be cancelled.
>
--- End Quote ---
thank you so much for your advice. is it ok for me to share a
draft here just in case i still miss anything before submitting?
but if i understand correctly the key argument point is that i
did not park my car on the part of the carriageway where the
restrictions applies, because I have stopped it beyond the
center line and hence the PCN should be cancelled? should i also
mention the brevity (i.e. the 1 minute duration of teh stop as a
'mitigation' factor at all?)
#Post#: 90687--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Borough of Bexley, stopped in a restricted area
outside of school, Victoria road (contravention code 48J)
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: September 19, 2025, 1:16 pm
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HCA has given you a draft: is there anything in his draft you do
not understand?
#Post#: 90689--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Borough of Bexley, stopped in a restricted area
outside of school, Victoria road (contravention code 48J)
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: September 19, 2025, 1:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps add that the contention that the contravention can only
apply to the centre of the carriageway is supported by parking
bays on the side on which you parked
#Post#: 90698--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Borough of Bexley, stopped in a restricted area
outside of school, Victoria road (contravention code 48J)
DIR By: Vince138
Date: September 19, 2025, 3:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
> HCA has given you a draft: is there anything in his draft you
do not understand?
>
--- End Quote ---
sorry for the stupid question but can i confirm again if I can
just use HCA's entire reply in my rep? is there any part i
should remove/ amend?
Also should i even mention the brevity of when i stopped my car,
i.e. the approximately 1 minute duration when i stopped, as a
'mitigation' factor at all?
apologies again for too many questions but i really want to make
it right instead of assuming / understanding anything wrong.
#Post#: 90701--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Borough of Bexley, stopped in a restricted area
outside of school, Victoria road (contravention code 48J)
DIR By: Vince138
Date: September 19, 2025, 3:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Pastmybest link ---
>
> Perhaps add that the contention that the contravention can
only apply to the centre of the carriageway is supported by
parking bays on the side on which you parked
>
--- End Quote ---
thanks, but to clarify do you mean i parked my car beyond the
centre line of the carriageway where the restrictions apply,
which is evidenced by the fact that there are parking bays on
the right side of mine?
#Post#: 90703--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Borough of Bexley, stopped in a restricted area
outside of school, Victoria road (contravention code 48J)
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 19, 2025, 4:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I support HCA's suggested draft.
I would not mention the shortness of the stop as "mitigation",
because you are submitting representations that the offence did
not occur, so mitigation is an irrelevancy.
The person who viewed the camera footage in the council is the
one who has failed to understand the nature of the restriction,
so is obvously either badly trained or motivated by the cash the
council will get if you just cough-up.
#Post#: 90704--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Borough of Bexley, stopped in a restricted area
outside of school, Victoria road (contravention code 48J)
DIR By: Vince138
Date: September 19, 2025, 4:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> I support HCA's suggested draft.
>
> I would not mention the shortness of the stop as "mitigation",
because you are submitting representations that the offence did
not occur, so mitigation is an irrelevancy.
> The person who viewed the camera footage in the council is the
one who has failed to understand the nature of the restriction,
so is obvously either badly trained or motivated by the cash the
council will get if you just cough-up.
>
--- End Quote ---
thanks a lot. so i can use HCA's entire reply in my rep (word by
word)? sorry again for the basic question but i wasn't 100% sure
of the last part on the Adjudicator's verdict on another
case....
#Post#: 90706--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Borough of Bexley, stopped in a restricted area
outside of school, Victoria road (contravention code 48J)
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: September 19, 2025, 4:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The adjudicator in the case I cited refused the appeal but by
doing so specified where the restricted area is. Not on the side
of the road where you were. So it's a recent (July 2025),
helpful case by one of their most critical brains.
The contravention is no stopping, not for a second. There's
little point in explaining what you were doing - when they
review the video they'll know it was dropping a kid off anyway.
#Post#: 90717--------------------------------------------------
Re: London Borough of Bexley, stopped in a restricted area
outside of school, Victoria road (contravention code 48J)
DIR By: John_S
Date: September 20, 2025, 3:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote ---
>
> thanks and apologies but still not sure what is the minor
design error here? e.g. what does '50mm' and '40mm' mean?
>
--- End Quote ---
Not wishing to overthink this because it may turn out to be
irrelevant. But before I answer this question, please confirm
the photo of the sign you posted was from Google Street View
(GSV). If so, it would be better to take your own photos of the
sign, one for context and one close-up, then post them here.
Sometimes GSV is out of date.
The upright sign in this case is critical for the contravention
to be made out. The road markings alone are not enough. Once I’m
sure what sign(s) were in place, I’ll give a more detailed
answer. In the meantime I suggest you follow HCA’s advice/text.
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