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#Post#: 90292--------------------------------------------------
TFL Red Route PCN - Weak/No Evidence?
DIR By: Londoner
Date: September 16, 2025, 5:10 pm
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Hi all,
I received below PCN which alleges I was parked on a red route,
however, there were no red lines visible where I was parked,
neither is there anything to suggest I was parked on a red route
from the images provided by TFL. Whilst there are red lines in
front and behind where I was parked, there were none in the
location where I was briefly parked. (The PCN correctly states
that I drove off before the CEO was able to attach a PCN to my
car)
Would this be valid grounds for representation that no
contravention occured, and if so, how would I word it?
Any help is much appreciated.
GSV Location:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/4aLqGRm7uwr7vGSA8?g_st=ac
HTML https://i.ibb.co/qM7ttjsm/IMG-20250916-WA0028-2.jpg
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HTML https://ibb.co/gLcFgLLp
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#Post#: 90294--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL Red Route PCN - Weak/No Evidence?
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: September 16, 2025, 5:27 pm
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You were stopped adjacent to a red route parking bay on a red
route so the contravention is there.
But check this:
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/tfl-red-route-postal-pcns/<br
/>
#Post#: 90300--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL Red Route PCN - Weak/No Evidence?
DIR By: Londoner
Date: September 16, 2025, 6:04 pm
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--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> You were stopped adjacent to a red route parking bay on a red
route so the contravention is there.
>
> But check this:
>
>
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/tfl-red-route-postal-pcns/
>
--- End Quote ---
Does the parking bay not need any red lines? There were none. It
seems from GSV they have faded away, so I presume they are meant
to be there...
#Post#: 90305--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL Red Route PCN - Weak/No Evidence?
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 16, 2025, 8:21 pm
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--- Quote from: Londoner link ---
>
> [quote author=stamfordman link=topic=8078.msg90294#msg90294
date=1758061635]
> You were stopped adjacent to a red route parking bay on a red
route so the contravention is there.
>
> But check this:
>
>
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/tfl-red-route-postal-pcns/
>
--- End Quote ---
Does the parking bay not need any red lines? There were none. It
seems from GSV they have faded away, so I presume they are meant
to be there...
[/quote]
No, because the red lines apply to both carriageway and
footway/verge just like yellow lines, so they'd be contrary to
the marked-out parking bay. The sign defines what one can do
there, so it's 20 mins only 7am to 7pm. then any time on the
other times, but in the bay, not on the carriageway. It seems
you saw no red lines and just parked, ignoring the sign and the
parked vehicles; true or false ?
#Post#: 90341--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL Red Route PCN - Weak/No Evidence?
DIR By: Londoner
Date: September 17, 2025, 4:58 am
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--- Quote ---
> No, because the red lines apply to both carriageway and
footway/verge just like yellow lines.
>
--- End Quote ---
Correct, I wouldn't have parked there had there been a solid red
line either on the road or in the parking bay, the same way I
wouldn't if there was yellow lines present. My assumption was if
there is no red line it shouldn't be enforceable. Also I believe
the red route traffic sign was facing the wrong way.
My point is there is nothing in the images from TFL that proves
I was parked in contravention. No red lines, no red route
traffic signs visible.
Obviously I'm not disputing I was parked there, but I'm trying
to find a technicality or procedural impropriety to get me out
of this.
Is this really enforceable??
#Post#: 90342--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL Red Route PCN - Weak/No Evidence?
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: September 17, 2025, 5:05 am
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Please read this, it is from our administrator. It seems there
is a 'technical' appeal: -
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/tfl-red-route-postal-pcns/
#Post#: 90370--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL Red Route PCN - Weak/No Evidence?
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: September 17, 2025, 7:42 am
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OP, I agree: where is the evidence of a contravention?
All the photos show is you stopped adjacent to dashed white
lines - so what?
If the CEO wants to rely upon what I believe is TfL's position
which is that you should have known that white markings on a
length of road between RR restrictions indicate the full time
presence of and conditional exemption from a red route
restriction, as per the fore and aft DRL, then it's obvious why
they didn't include the traffic sign because it's part-time!
IMO, the rules relating to red route markings are unclear.
However, I think you could put the following to TfL.
You parked adjacent to white road markings as shown in the
photos. As these were not red, you interpreted their meaning as
being lengths of road excluded from the red route 24/7
prohibition as indicated by the fore and aft double red lines
and parked accordingly. After being served with the PCN you
researched the matter and discovered in TfL's own publications
that actually these markings indicate areas where parking or a
similar activity is permitted for the whole of the time of the
prevailing red route prohibition. However, in this case you have
discovered that there's also a traffic sign which indicates a
part-time exemption.
You submit that either TfL use white markings only for full time
exemptions(from the prevailing prohibition) or they should
abandon these and use red markings for all areas instead of,
what is the case here, which is a part-time exemption to a
full-time prohibition. The use of white markings for either full
or part-time exemptions cannot be anything other than confusing.
IMO, the signage is improper.
OP, the permitted markings for a Red Route are:
SRL;
DRL;
Dashed red line, signifying a 'parking' bay which may be used
only for part of the time that the RR is in force;
Dashed white line, signifying 'parking' bay in use for ALL the
RR hours(although the convoluted wording of the Traffic Signs
regs suggests otherwise).
These markings are white and the RR is 24/7 as indicated by the
DRL, therefore IMO you may not have a part-time exemption, as
here.
#Post#: 93612--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL Red Route PCN - Weak/No Evidence?
DIR By: Londoner
Date: October 10, 2025, 10:42 am
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I've submitted formal reps to TfL and they've sent a Notice of
Rejection.
Is the only way to appeal to London tribunal via snail mail? TfL
have not included any code to appeal online.
#Post#: 93621--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL Red Route PCN - Weak/No Evidence?
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: October 10, 2025, 11:17 am
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Please post up here the NoR.
#Post#: 93626--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL Red Route PCN - Weak/No Evidence?
DIR By: Londoner
Date: October 10, 2025, 11:38 am
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