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#Post#: 12572--------------------------------------------------
Re: 12 - Newham - Parked Without Valid Permit - No Road Markings
or Signage in Sight.
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: December 17, 2023, 4:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Well done on finding this case. The key sentence for me is: -
"One small sign, wherever it has been placed, is not sufficient
to mark a restriction that applies in this entire area."
Obviously you would quote this case in your appeal if you take
them to London Tribunals.
#Post#: 12575--------------------------------------------------
Re: 12 - Newham - Parked Without Valid Permit - No Road Markings
or Signage in Sight.
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: December 17, 2023, 5:56 am
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OP, you're not at Tribunal yet, there's the important formal NTO
stage yet to be negotiated.
IMO, it's premature to concern yourself with adjudication, the
question is whether you could succeed at the NTO stage and, if
not, would the authority re-offer the discount again.
As regards the decision referred to, IMO there is nothing in
this which would lead to the conclusion that the adjudicator
considered the signage to be inadequate. Rather the appellant
'disputes the signage is clear', which is capable of many
interpretations. And as neither the appellant nor the council
had put hard evidence in front of the adj the case was adjourned
and determined because the council didn't respond. We could
speculate what might have happened had they done so, but I don't
see that this would be useful.
OP, let's try and nail one point: are you able to arrange for
the location of all signs to be identified and plotted on a
simple diagram? If not, then should you* decide to continue, you
must put this to the authority in formal reps. Not just as a
statement e.g. your signs are inadequate etc, but by posing a
question which requires them to respond by identifying where
these are and, if only at the gateway, why the council chose to
place the barest minimum permissible** in theory, but
insufficient in practice given the size of the area and
situation in which the gateway signs have been placed.
* - are you the registered keeper with current DVLA details?
**- see s.13.10 of the Traffic Signs Manual which, although not
law, is recommended practice and the authority may, and should,
be challenged on this where there is a significant departure
from its recommendations:
HTML https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/782724/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf
#Post#: 12596--------------------------------------------------
Re: 12 - Newham - Parked Without Valid Permit - No Road Markings
or Signage in Sight.
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: December 17, 2023, 11:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
As a backup to the inadequate signage point, which I think is
sufficient on its own, the 28 days are wrongly expressed on the
PCN which has been a winner at the tribunal for me.
#Post#: 15014--------------------------------------------------
Re: 12 - Newham - Parked Without Valid Permit - No Road Markings
or Signage in Sight.
DIR By: Londoner
Date: February 4, 2024, 5:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE: I've attached pics of NtO below.
I know I only have a few days left to make representations so
hoping someone can still help me.
I've re-read all the above replies and wondering what would be
the best grounds for making reps. on?
HTML https://i.ibb.co/SnrnPcB/PXL-20240204-225400963-2.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/VSmStxT
HTML https://i.ibb.co/bWy6KtZ/PXL-20240204-225615103.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/TvnwgyS
HTML https://i.ibb.co/phBtDF4/PXL-20240204-225512375.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/vX675nL
#Post#: 15016--------------------------------------------------
Re: 12 - Newham - Parked Without Valid Permit - No Road Markings
or Signage in Sight.
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: February 4, 2024, 5:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
My 28 day argument no longer works.
I would, if I were you, make representations on the grounds that
there was no contravention because signage is inadequate. You
don't have to spell it out any more than that.
#Post#: 15018--------------------------------------------------
Re: 12 - Newham - Parked Without Valid Permit - No Road Markings
or Signage in Sight.
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: February 4, 2024, 5:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure you'd need to change much, if anything, from the
previous draft.
#Post#: 15108--------------------------------------------------
Re: 12 - Newham - Parked Without Valid Permit - No Road Markings
or Signage in Sight.
DIR By: Londoner
Date: February 6, 2024, 6:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Okay. Thanks guys, I'll go with the same appeal as before.
#Post#: 15205--------------------------------------------------
Re: 12 - Newham - Parked Without Valid Permit - No Road Markings
or Signage in Sight.
DIR By: Londoner
Date: February 7, 2024, 3:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I just realised I might�ve submitted my reps a day after the
deadline.
Does the 28 day counter start on the stated date the NtO is
posted?
If so, I submitted my reps on day 29.
Is this going to be an issue?
#Post#: 15211--------------------------------------------------
Re: 12 - Newham - Parked Without Valid Permit - No Road Markings
or Signage in Sight.
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: February 7, 2024, 6:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Londoner link ---
>
> I just realised I might�ve submitted my reps a day after the
deadline.
>
> Does the 28 day counter start on the stated date the NtO is
posted?
>
> If so, I submitted my reps on day 29.
>
> Is this going to be an issue?
>
--- End Quote ---
The 28 day pariod for PCNs issued under the Traffic Management
Act 2004 (your PCN) is from date of service. This is assumed as
2 working days after the date of the PCN.
#Post#: 15409--------------------------------------------------
Re: 12 - Newham - Parked Without Valid Permit - No Road Markings
or Signage in Sight.
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: February 11, 2024, 7:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Londoner link ---
>
> I just realised I might�ve submitted my reps a day after the
deadline.
>
--- End Quote ---
You haven't submitted representations late, the deadline was 8
February.
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