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#Post#: 120568--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see
the temporary traffic order?
DIR By: neverpaying
Date: June 3, 2026, 7:04 am
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My tribunal appeal is next Tuesday. [member=428]H C
Andersen[/member] was most helpful in collecting ideas and
drafting an appeal. It seems they are no longer active on this
forum.
I am happy to go on my own to this virtual meeting. I am unsure
as to how I can strengthen my points, while
addressing/undermining/countering their points listed above.
There was an earlier point by [member=2249]stamfordman[/member]
"If you parked and walked forward from the car the nearest
parking sign does not appear to have had a temp sign. And in any
case it seems to have been the nearest sign - numerous tribunal
appeals have been won on this." - I will include this as well
#Post#: 120571--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see
the temporary traffic order?
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: June 3, 2026, 7:14 am
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The simple fact is, was there a sign on the nearest bay sign to
you.
Also the use of temporary traffic orders in place of properly
signed bay suspensions is often defective in signage and
wording.
This case gives clues on signing.
--------
Case reference
Appellant
Authority
VRM
PCN Details
PCN
Contravention date
Contravention time
Contravention location
Penalty amount
Contravention
Referral date
Decision Date
Adjudicator
Appeal decision
Direction
Owner.
Reasons
essentially that the signage was not clear and that in fact no
works took place. I am satisfied by the Council’s reply as to
the latter point.
Although the Council refers to the “suspension” of the bay it
states” A Temporary Traffic Order was issued which applied to
the whole of the road and these restrictions override
pre-existing restrictions for the duration of the suspension.”
This follows the normal practice in gully cleaning cases and is
consistent with the sign used , which is not the three-sided
sign normally authorised by the DfT for the indication of
suspensions, but the rondel used for signs indicating a
temporary waiting restriction. The white part of the sign is
illegible but the amount of text on it is also consistent with a
Temporary Traffic Order, as is the contravention for which the
PCN was issued.
As this is therefore, as I find, a case of the imposition of a
Temporary Order rather than the exercise of powers of
suspension, in the absence of that Order I am unable to be
satisfied that a contravention is made out.
Quote apart from these technical issues, important though they
are , I would not have been satisfied that the temporary
restriction was adequately drawn to the Appellant’s attention.
In the case of temporary waiting restrictions where cones are
not used it is particularly important that there are sufficient
signs in place to make it very clear to the motorist that the
normal parking arrangements do not apply. The single sign shown
in the CEO’s photographs is not only mostly illegible but cannot
be seen clearly in any of the photographs showing the vehicle.
As on the evidence I am unable to be satisfied a restriction was
lawfully in force or that it was clearly signed the Appeal must
be allowed.
#Post#: 120606--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see
the temporary traffic order?
DIR By: neverpaying
Date: June 3, 2026, 10:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for the case reference, I will include this in my
evidence.
Regarding the relative position of the sign, I shared a map I
made earlier, sharing again now:
There was no suspended sign in front of me:
HTML https://i.ibb.co/xtxcKbSb/MAP.jpg
#Post#: 120686--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see
the temporary traffic order?
DIR By: tincombe
Date: June 4, 2026, 6:11 am
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Pl post the TTMO and the core TMO* which are included in their
evidence pack as well as the photo(s) of the signage in the
pack.
*- this is important because as far as I can tell from previous
posts the TTMO refers to the core Order as regards its scope and
we therefore need to see how this is framed and how it deals
with 'Traffic Signs'.
As regards their reference to 'semantic distinction', the law
thinks otherwise:
The Road Traffic (Temporary Restrictions) Procedure Regulations
1992
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/1215/contents/made
#Post#: 120850--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see
the temporary traffic order?
DIR By: neverpaying
Date: June 5, 2026, 7:51 am
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--- Quote from: tincombe link ---
>
> Pl post the TTMO and the core TMO* which are included in their
evidence pack as well as the photo(s) of the signage in the
pack.
>
> *- this is important because as far as I can tell from
previous posts the TTMO refers to the core Order as regards its
scope and we therefore need to see how this is framed and how it
deals with 'Traffic Signs'.
>
> As regards their reference to 'semantic distinction', the law
thinks otherwise:
>
>
> The Road Traffic (Temporary Restrictions) Procedure
Regulations 1992
>
>
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/1215/contents/made
>
--- End Quote ---
In their 54 page PDF that they have submitted, this is the only
TTMO that I can see, which is what was printed and attached to
the yellow sign. It is also the only piece of evidence
categorised under "Evidence Type B: Case Summary & Traffic
Management Order"
Am I right in thinking that this actually is the TTMO and they
have not provided the core TMO - is this something I can use
against them?
HTML https://i.ibb.co/VpcJC30v/TMO1.png
#Post#: 120853--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see
the temporary traffic order?
DIR By: tincombe
Date: June 5, 2026, 8:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
?
This Order does not restrict or change parking arrangements.
'..the general effect of which will be to close the roads listed
in Schedule 1 below'.
Nothing to do with parking, let alone introducing waiting
restrictions.
#Post#: 120892--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see
the temporary traffic order?
DIR By: neverpaying
Date: June 5, 2026, 4:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: tincombe link ---
>
> ?
>
> This Order does not restrict or change parking arrangements.
>
> '..the general effect of which will be to close the roads
listed in Schedule 1 below'.
>
> Nothing to do with parking, let alone introducing waiting
restrictions.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ha yes, I completely missed that it was different to the printed
one on the sign. In their evidence pack, this is the only Order
they have attached, so it seems to be a mistake on their part.
#Post#: 120913--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see
the temporary traffic order?
DIR By: tincombe
Date: June 6, 2026, 2:15 am
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A very, very big mistake!
#Post#: 121146--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see
the temporary traffic order?
DIR By: neverpaying
Date: June 8, 2026, 10:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: tincombe link ---
>
> A very, very big mistake!
>
--- End Quote ---
I have my hearing tomorrow, do I have to submit anything as
counter or as evidence, or do I just mention it during the
meeting?
Also to note that they do have the CEO's photograph of the sign
with the printed out TTO. Does the defence still hold that "the
TTO which is the basis for the contravention has not been
supplied"?
#Post#: 121148--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newham - 01a, parked in restricted street - how may I see
the temporary traffic order?
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: June 8, 2026, 10:38 am
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Make a list of the issues to raise with the adjudicator.
What often happens is they see an obvious reason to allow the
appeal and then don't bother with other issues but it's
important to be prepared with them all just in case.
You don't have to file anything about their evidence pack now
but I would draw attention to the mistake from the off.
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