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#Post#: 13971--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: January 18, 2024, 1:10 pm
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'Penalty exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of
the case'.
The circumstances being that the authority had no legal basis to
demand a penalty from you as the 'owner' because they were not
empowered to issue a new NTO to you pursuant to regulations
20(1) and 20(4)(b) of the General Provisions etc. Regulations
because the precedent conditions in Regulation 5(4)(d) had not
been met by the owner i.e. the authority was not in possession
of a statement of liability signed by you or evidence that the
owner was a 'vehicle-hire firm' and that a 'hiring agreement'
(both defined terms) were in effect.
In this case, the authority have simply accepted the say-so of a
leasing company that the vehicle in question was subject to a
3-year lease, however, this claim, even if correct, does not
meet the legal standard required and therefore the authority's
purported cancellation of that NTO was ultra vires and it must
therefore follow that their issue of a new NTO was similarly
unlawful.
As a thought.
#Post#: 13990--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
DIR By: taffer87
Date: January 19, 2024, 4:22 am
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--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
>
> 'Penalty exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances
of the case'.
>
> The circumstances being that the authority had no legal basis
to demand a penalty from you as the 'owner' because they were
not empowered to issue a new NTO to you pursuant to regulations
20(1) and 20(4)(b) of the General Provisions etc. Regulations
because the precedent conditions in Regulation 5(4)(d) had not
been met by the owner i.e. the authority was not in possession
of a statement of liability signed by you or evidence that the
owner was a 'vehicle-hire firm' and that a 'hiring agreement'
(both defined terms) were in effect.
>
> In this case, the authority have simply accepted the say-so of
a leasing company that the vehicle in question was subject to a
3-year lease, however, this claim, even if correct, does not
meet the legal standard required and therefore the authority's
purported cancellation of that NTO was ultra vires and it must
therefore follow that their issue of a new NTO was similarly
unlawful.
>
> As a thought.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks is that relevant for the PCN and NTO issued under TMA
2004 or do I need to change the references?
Also here is the NTO in my name if that adds any other points I
should add?
HTML https://i.ibb.co/MBLQ3Dv/lambeth-nto-page-1-of-4.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/0s3vdj7
HTML https://i.ibb.co/JsqyJHJ/lambeth-nto-page-2-of-4.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/2kSs4d4
HTML https://i.ibb.co/d2wzsJZ/lambeth-nto-page-3-of-4.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/C73TpsL
HTML https://i.ibb.co/sFmkGpL/lambeth-nto-page4-of-4.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/tbmktwy
#Post#: 14002--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
DIR By: taffer87
Date: January 19, 2024, 9:07 am
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--- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
>
> Have VW leasing received a noitice of cancellation of the
original PCN?
>
--- End Quote ---
here is the council letter to the lease company.. it technically
doesn't say it is a "Notice of Acceptance" does it need to be
quite explicit to count as a Notice of Acceptance? If so could
be an appeal point once it gets to London Tribunals
HTML https://i.ibb.co/BZWzdSs/lambeth-letter-to-lease-company.png
HTML https://ibb.co/2tVnmfK
#Post#: 14009--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: January 19, 2024, 9:36 am
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As I understand it (but see what the experts say) in order to
accept the transfer of liability (see also pots replies #47 &
#50 from PMB and HCA) they have to cancel the original PCN & NtO
and re-issue to you. They have specifically declined to cancel.
It's a mess, but it needs an expert to give you definitive
advice as to next step.
See also this Lambeth doc on Representations both VW & you have
received,note especially the 2nd paragraph and the 4th. ground.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/t8qBVy5/NTO-to-VWFS-Lambeth-p3.png
HTML https://imgbb.com/
#Post#: 14013--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: January 19, 2024, 10:19 am
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My point remains the same. If anything it's enhanced by the
council's letter which is typically legally ignorant. Where ANY
reps are made then the council are under this duty:
5) If the enforcement authority accepts the representations—
(a)it must cancel the relevant enforcement notice,
(b)its decision notice must state that the enforcement notice
has been cancelled
*- Enforcement notice is a regulatory term which covers a NTO.
OP, in my draft please insert 'Appeals' before Regulation (5)...
#Post#: 14236--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
DIR By: taffer87
Date: January 24, 2024, 2:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
thanks for this. Seems like this will be a pretty solid appeal
point for London Tribunals
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
>
> My point remains the same. If anything it's enhanced by the
council's letter which is typically legally ignorant. Where ANY
reps are made then the council are under this duty:
>
>
> 5) If the enforcement authority accepts the representations—
>
> (a)it must cancel the relevant enforcement notice,
>
> (b)its decision notice must state that the enforcement notice
has been cancelled
>
> *- Enforcement notice is a regulatory term which covers a NTO.
>
> OP, in my draft please insert 'Appeals' before Regulation
(5)...
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 14279--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: January 24, 2024, 2:51 pm
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I don't see that Lambeth's actions will stand up to scrutiny,
I'd send HCA's draft for now and let's see what drivel comes
back in the rejection.
#Post#: 14289--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: January 24, 2024, 5:50 pm
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[member=832]taffer87[/member] has sent me the terms of the lease
and they don't create a permanent disposition in any event, so
it's hard to see how one could lose this case.
#Post#: 14657--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
DIR By: taffer87
Date: January 31, 2024, 7:02 am
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received a rejection notice today. should i submit the london
tribunal in person appeal saying i rely on my previous
representation and will provide further points after reviewing
the evidence pack presented by Lambeth?
HTML https://i.ibb.co/2s0gwQQ/IMG-2736.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/CMphqZZ
HTML https://i.ibb.co/zNDfvD5/IMG-2737.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/WsjKJj3
HTML https://i.ibb.co/56njgbS/IMG-2738.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/80dxL1f
HTML https://i.ibb.co/ZL1PQQF/IMG-2739.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/5MxyQQS
HTML https://i.ibb.co/vzSmfsB/IMG-2740.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/12kKBsn
HTML https://i.ibb.co/ZLNsSC5/IMG-2741.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/X2VBDT1
#Post#: 14670--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: January 31, 2024, 9:20 am
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There should be a law against councils acting in this way!
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