DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 8455--------------------------------------------------
Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
DIR By: taffer87
Date: October 26, 2023, 8:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Will upload council photos as soon as they are on council
website
I received a PCN this morning - had an appointment at the
hospital - found parking and paid on paybyphone.co.uk (I thought
I had and went through all the steps at 10.18). This area is
full of council enforcement officers and would never even think
of not paying here.
Had 2 kids under 3 in the car, loaded them onto the pram - got
to the hospital building and in waiting area i saw the phone and
it was showing a "Connection Error" and asking me to pay again -
I was stupid and should have taken a screenshot but didn't as
panicked a bit and immediately paid but as the receipt shows
this was at 10.33
The appointment was relatively quick and I actually got back to
the car at 11am and found the PCN on the windscreen. The council
website shows they started observing at 10.20 and issued at
10.26
The car is a lease car (VWFS, who only provide a letter to the
Council, not the lease agreement and I have had a previous PCN
cancelled by London Tribunals from a different council
(Lewisham) as the council never received the hire agreement from
the authority).
Will be great to get advice on this - assume I should send an
informal rep to the council basically apologising and explaining
the circumstances?
Are there any technical flaws that could help?
Worst case - I may have to bet on the same hire agreement
technical issues again but would be better to have something
more too.
GSV link here: parked exactly where the white car is so right
next to the sign too..
HTML https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4685773,-0.0956214,3a,75y,242.96h,75.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-C_5JmXuEQ7ed-2twzSEBg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu
HTML https://i.ibb.co/274fCrm/pcn-front.png
HTML https://ibb.co/VW4PzGr
HTML https://i.ibb.co/c8pyj46/pcn-back-page.png
HTML https://ibb.co/hdngS3B]https://i.ibb.co/MGFMJRJ/receipt-email.png
HTML https://ibb.co/jWngjLj
HTML https://i.ibb.co/6B63kNg/council-website.png
HTML https://ibb.co/2NXDT5g
#Post#: 8576--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
DIR By: taffer87
Date: October 28, 2023, 8:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Managed to get this evidence so far
1. Google timeline showing the journey and legnth of stay
2. Hospital appointment time showing the 10.30 appointment time
3. Receipt of parking from last hospital visit
I can also add daschcam photos if that would be beneficial
The only thing I am trying to sort out evidence for is the time
i visited the paybyphone website as Chrome app on android (on my
wife's phone) doesn't show the time stamp for previous days
visits even though Chrome app on Iphone does show time stamp for
previous days... trying to see if i can get the history file or
can export data somehow to prove the exact time...
The appointment was at the Golden Jubilee Wing and as per google
maps it takes a 3 min walk. However, with kids and then entering
the building, waiting at lifts goin to the right ward its about
8-10 minutes
Will appreciate any advice - is it worth submitting informal
reps? Any history with Lambeth - would they consider? If not
worth it then I can just not to anything and wait for NTO and
then see if they issued a notice of acceptance to the lease
company / what documents they received from lease company etc
HTML [url=http://"
HTML https://ibb.co/ggbdbC3"]https://i.ibb.co/VB0x08t/hospital-appointment-letter-redacted.jpg[/url]
HTML [url=http://"
HTML https://ibb.co/9s5ZmN4"]https://i.ibb.co/cDnYK18/receipt-old-parking-redacted.jpg[/url]
HTML [url=http://"
HTML https://ibb.co/KjsRKsX"]https://i.ibb.co/GvMBHM0/Google-timeline-page-redcated.png[/url]
council photos now available too
HTML https://i.ibb.co/nrWncmh/council-photo-6.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/nrWncmh<br
/>
HTML https://i.ibb.co/5LcLBR5/council-photo-3.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/5LcLBR5<br
/>
HTML https://i.ibb.co/2dPbh24/council-photo-2.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/2dPbh24<br
/>
HTML https://i.ibb.co/37xj9YW/council-photo-1.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/37xj9YW<br
/>
HTML https://i.ibb.co/VmwqxzG/council-photo-5.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/VmwqxzG<br
/>
HTML https://i.ibb.co/xJfMD9b/council-photo-4.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/xJfMD9b
#Post#: 8655--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: October 29, 2023, 10:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
A good starting point would be for your to draw up a draft
representation including all the points you want to advance and
all the supporting evidence you want to put forwards. That makes
it much easier for us to evaluate the strength of your case.
#Post#: 8665--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
DIR By: taffer87
Date: October 29, 2023, 11:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
yes will do but want to check if by some luck there is anything
technically wrong with the PCN text?
#Post#: 8688--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: October 29, 2023, 4:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: taffer87 link ---
>
> yes will do but want to check if by some luck there is
anything technically wrong with the PCN text?
>
--- End Quote ---
I can't see anything wrong with the PCN itself.
#Post#: 8742--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
DIR By: taffer87
Date: October 30, 2023, 9:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Draft rep below - any comments welcome on the text and/or
merits./. if not worth it then I can just wait for NTO, transfer
of liability and hope council don't issue Notice of Acceptance
or don't get the hire agreement etc (which some adjudicators
allow as an appeal point) - doing it my wife's name as paid via
her phone.
Dear Sirs,
I want to make an informal representation regarding PCN XXXX .
I was attending a post-pregnancy complication-related hospital
appointment at 10.30am (hospital appointment letter can be seen
in exhibit A) and arrived at the location at 10.15am. The
Paybyphone app (which I had used at a previous appointment on
25-May, receipt picture in exhibit B) was not working so I used
the Chrome browser application on the phone to go to the
paybyphone website and started a session by entering my details
and went through all the steps including payment by 10.20 am and
the session was showing as having started on the page. I paid
for 1.5 hours as my last appointment at the same hospital clinic
had taken around 2 hours due to delays and I was anticipating
staying for a long time. From my previous visit, I am also aware
that this area is enforced strictly by the council, being right
next to a hospital and there are many enforcement agents walking
about at all times.
I then had to take 2 of my kids (an under 1-year-old and the
other a 2-year-old) out of the car and put in the pram and get
to the Golden Jubilee Wing of the hospital and enter the 3rd
floor which took around 10 minutes and I arrive at the hospital
clinic at 10.30. To my shock, on reaching the location when I
looked at my mobile again the live parking session had
disappeared and the paybyphone website was showing a “Connection
Error” message. I immediately restarted the steps and purchased
a new session which started at 10.33 am for 1.5 hours (see
Exhibit C for receipt, no receipt received for the session
started earlier around 10.15 am).
The appointment at the clinic was very efficient this time and I
was seen shortly after. I then took my kids and myself back to
the car and was shocked to see a PCN attached to the car.
I had no intention of not paying for the session and the parking
session had started on the paybyphone website when I left the
car and due to some error with the paybyphone website or system
the session was not recorded. I also include a photo of my
browser history which shows I had to visit paybyphone app
multiple times in the morning of the 26th (see exhibit D).
I left the site at 10.51 am (see Exhibit E, Google timeline
showing my time of arrival and departure).
I urge you to please consider the circumstances above and cancel
the PCN. I will of course be more than happy to provide any
other information that you request.
Yours faithfully,
Exhibits
HTML [url=http://"
HTML https://ibb.co/ggbdbC3"]https://i.ibb.co/VB0x08t/hospital-appointment-letter-redacted.jpg[/url]
HTML [url=http://"
HTML https://ibb.co/9s5ZmN4"]https://i.ibb.co/cDnYK18/receipt-old-parking-redacted.jpg[/url]
HTML https://i.ibb.co/X3cSGzG/receipt-email.png
HTML https://ibb.co/jWngjLj[url=http://"https://ibb.co/KjsRKsX"]https://i.ibb.co/GvMBHM0/Google-timeline-page-redcated.png[/url]
HTML https://i.ibb.co/B3WqLgn/385533502-1694414784412618-1034144666736827407-n.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/V9n2Vvw
#Post#: 8832--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
DIR By: taffer87
Date: October 31, 2023, 1:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Bump - looking to send rep by end of tomorrow so any comments
welcome
#Post#: 8848--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: October 31, 2023, 4:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I am not a fan of the story re the appointment, all you are
doing is asking for discretion that will not be given.
You must focus on the connection error and the fact that you
paid as soon as a connection was secured
You must be given time to make the payment and as the pay by
phone was the only option then it's up to the council to ensure
it is accessible
for the informal reps that is the major point, the hospital
appointment matters only in that it is reason why you did not
wait at the car until payment is made you don't have to but the
council will say you should
For later there is another ground which i would not bring up
just yet
#Post#: 8883--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
DIR By: taffer87
Date: November 1, 2023, 5:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks - will be great to know the other potential argument if
possible even if not including now.
I have now also received a response from Paybyphone support,
will be good to know if adds to my case/helps? or should i not
include it (last pic below)
Updated draft ref below
Dear Sirs,
I want to make an informal representation regarding PCN XXXX.
I was attending a post-pregnancy complication-related hospital
appointment at 10.30am (hospital appointment letter can be seen
in exhibit A) and arrived at the location at 10.15am. The
Paybyphone app (which I had used at a previous appointment on
25-May, receipt picture in exhibit B) was not working so I used
the Chrome browser application on the phone to go to the
paybyphone website and started a session by entering my details
and went through all the steps including payment by 10.20 am and
the session was showing as having started on the page. I paid
for 1.5 hours as my last appointment at the same hospital clinic
had taken around 2 hours due to delays and I was anticipating
staying for a long time. From my previous visit, I am also aware
that this area is enforced strictly by the council, being right
next to a hospital and there are many enforcement agents walking
about at all times.
I then had to take 2 of my kids (an under 1-year-old and the
other a 2-year-old) out of the car and put in the pram and get
to the Golden Jubilee Wing of the hospital and enter the 3rd
floor which took around 10 minutes and I arrive at the hospital
clinic at 10.30. To my shock, on reaching the location when I
looked at my mobile again the live parking session had
disappeared and the paybyphone website was showing a “Connection
Error” message. I immediately restarted the steps and purchased
a new session which started at 10.33 am for 1.5 hours (see
Exhibit C for receipt for this, no receipt email received for
the earlier session from 10.15).
The appointment at the clinic was very efficient this time and I
was seen shortly after. I then took my kids and myself back to
the car and was dismayed to see a PCN attached to the car.
I had no intention of not paying for the session and the parking
session had started on the paybyphone website when I left the
car and due to some error with the paybyphone website or system
the session was not recorded. I also include a photo of my
browser history which shows I had to visit paybyphone app
multiple times in the morning of the 26th (see exhibit D).
I left the site at 10.51 am (see Exhibit E, Google timeline
showing my time of arrival and departure).
In summary: I started a paid live parking session at around
10.15am and left with the honest belief I had paid. There must
have been some technical issues with Paymyphone as their mobile
application was not working and I was forced to pay via the
browser which showed a live session when I left the car. I
immediately paid for a new parking session when on reaching the
hospital I realised the live parking session had turned into an
"Connection Error" message in the paybyphone website. I then had
to try multiple times to make the payment as can be seen. The
only reason the parking session disappeared after initially
being started by me is a technical issue with paybyphonbe and I
have even contacted Paybyphone support who confirmed that I went
through all the steps at 10:15 and entered the payment details,
location time etc. For some fault with their website the session
started on my browser but not on their system (Exhibit F)
I urge you to please consider the circumstances above and cancel
the PCN. I will of course be more than happy to provide any
other information that you request.
Yours faithfully,
Exhibits
HTML [url=http://"
HTML https://ibb.co/ggbdbC3"]https://i.ibb.co/VB0x08t/hospital-appointment-letter-redacted.jpg[/url]
HTML [url=http://"
HTML https://ibb.co/9s5ZmN4"]https://i.ibb.co/cDnYK18/receipt-old-parking-redacted.jpg[/url]
HTML [url=http://"
HTML https://ibb.co/jWngjLj"]https://i.ibb.co/X3cSGzG/receipt-email.png[/url][url=http://"https://ibb.co/KjsRKsX"]https://i.ibb.co/GvMBHM0/Google-timeline-page-redcated.png[/url]
HTML [url=http://"
HTML https://ibb.co/V9n2Vvw"]https://i.ibb.co/B3WqLgn/385533502-1694414784412618-1034144666736827407-n.jpg[/url]
HTML https://i.ibb.co/YXBs483/Paybyphone-support-Page1.jpg
HTML https://ibb.co/vh4nCmH
#Post#: 8950--------------------------------------------------
Re: Lambeth - windscreen PCN - code 12s - Cutcombe Road (A)
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: November 1, 2023, 5:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Definitely include the paybyphone logs, it's the only evidence
that shows you haven't made the whole thing up.
However to set your expectations, you will almost certainly have
to take this to the tribunal.
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 10
DIR Next Page