DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Non-motoring legal advice
*****************************************************
#Post#: 8907--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
By: guest46 Date: November 1, 2023, 9:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Well, one obvious question is - having been given legal notice
to vacate, why are there still tenants in Situ? It reads as if
the law HAS been applied correctly from the judgement laid down
- if you think otherwise, please share it and the advice may
differ. If not, heed what has been posted already...........
#Post#: 8917--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
By: ivanleo Date: November 1, 2023, 2:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=PeacefulWarrior link=topic=786.msg8906#msg8906
date=1698850555]
I get what you are saying about the law and my intention is to
find out exactly what the person named on the writ cannot/is not
supposed to be doing, before he actually comes and does his
deed. Preempting is always better than remedying, just as
prevention is always better than a cure.
[/quote]
I'm the person you first approached for assitance so I'll give
you my thoughts as I think you consider that although I am not a
qualified lawyer, I am vaguely competent to give reasonably
reliable legal advice.
I think you need to apply a bit of pragmatism here. If you
insist that you can't come back to the UK in time and your N244
isn't dealt with before Friday (which seems likely, the courts
normally take weeks to process anything), then regardless of
whether you will ultimately be vindicated in the fullness of
time, the likelihood is that the HCEO will (rightly or wrongly)
evict anyone present on Friday and any minors will be taken into
the custody of social services, as obviously an officer of the
court cannot leave children homeless on the street. I know
precisely zero about family law but I can't imagine social
services would be impressed that you put minors in such a
position.
So the question is not really what will happen when in six
months or a year at a subsequent hearing where a judge might say
that you were right all along, the real question is where do you
expect the children to sleep on Friday night if the HCEO
(rightly or wrongly) does what he says he's going to do?
And without looking up any references, I can tell you as a fact
that once a court has granted an eviction order and a warrant
has been obtained, a suitably empowered bailiff / HCEO can use
reasonable force to make entry, regardless of who might be
inside the premises. I have dealt with this previously but I
don't have time to go and look up all the references, so either
you accept this advice, or you don't.
If you really can't get back to the UK to deal with this, the
best advice I can give you is to arrange for the children to
vacate the premises themselves before Friday and go and stay
with a friend or relative until you get back.
This might all sound very harsh but our mission here is to tell
you how it is, rather than to tell you what you'd like to hear.
#Post#: 8918--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
By: guest111 Date: November 1, 2023, 2:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
You are confusing debt collection with eviction. Bailiffs
cannot force entry on their first visit (but can thereafter) if
they are only collecting a debt, but they can force entry if
they are carrying out an eviction, which is what is intended on
Friday.
HCEO bailliffs can force entry to evict you. See for example:
HTML https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/eviction/what_happens_when_bailiffs_evict_tenants
Having an unaccompanied minor in the property will not prevent
the eviction. If there's a minor in the property they will call
social services. They have a High Court Possession order,
that's all they need to give them the legal power to force
entry, evict the tenants and change the locks. They may agree
to give you access to the property/to a storage facility on a
later date if you have not removed all of your property, but you
may be charged for storage.
Instructing a 15 year old to deal with this without an adult and
to resist the bailiffs is unconscionable.
He can call the police, but the police do not have the power to
stop or delay the eviction. All they can do is prevent a breach
of the peace by anyone including onlookers.
Not every HCEO is listed on the site you found (it's an
organisation which some HCEOs choose to belong to and some
don't); common sense should tell you that a big company like
Marstons for example - who work throughout the UK - will employ
more than three HCEOs, yet only three are listed for Marstons on
that site.
The bit you found about business debts is inapplicable because
this isn't about a debt or business premises, but an eviction
from a residential property.
Semayne v Gresham talks about where goods are being seized, but
the page to which you link makes it clear that bailiffs can
force entry in certain circumstances, one of those being when
the King (in modern parlance, this is understood to be the
Court) has given the order.
If you cannot or will not return to the UK by Friday, and if
your N244 doesn't succeed in delaying the eviction, my advice is
not to put your children in the position of having to deal with
this. Get them to stay with friends so at least you won't be
facing a social services investigation into leaving them alone
in the UK and allowing them to experience such a traumatic thing
as eviction.
#Post#: 8931--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
By: DancingDad Date: November 1, 2023, 3:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I would also make sure that personal possessions are removed or
at least anything with real or personal value.
You are in denial and if you don't want to believe that is up to
you.
But make no mistake, when the bailiffs turn up, they can use
reasonable force to enter and to remove people.
They will then change the locks and you have no right of access.
You will need permission from landlord or their agents to remove
your property and they have the right to charge you storage.
They can also charge you for added costs such as for the
bailiffs and for the locks.
If your son or anyone else obstructs the bailiffs, they can be
arrested.
#Post#: 8934--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
By: Southpaw82 Date: November 1, 2023, 4:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=PeacefulWarrior link=topic=786.msg8900#msg8900
date=1698847749]
I rather go by what the law says, instead of relying on
hearsay.[/quote]
I think part of the problem is that you don’t know what the law
says, or perhaps that you don’t know what law is applicable to
your particular circumstances.
#Post#: 8940--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
By: guest111 Date: November 1, 2023, 4:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Your tenancy was brought to an end under section 21 of the
Housing Act 1988
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/50/contents
You chose not to leave at the end of your tenancy so your
landlord used section 42 of the County Courts Act 1984
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/28/contents
to obtain
a writ of possession, which is enforceable under Civil Procedure
Rules Part 83:13.
HTML https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part-83-writs-and-warrants-general-provisions
I cannot find any web pages that suggest that evictions cannot
go ahead if there is a minor living in the property. Anyone who
has watched Can't Pay? We'll Take It Away! will recall that
several evictions of families with children took place, entirely
legally.
#Post#: 8944--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
By: ivanleo Date: November 1, 2023, 5:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=rosywillow link=topic=786.msg8940#msg8940
date=1698875212]
I cannot find any web pages that suggest that evictions cannot
go ahead if there is a minor living in the property. Anyone who
has watched Can't Pay? We'll Take It Away! will recall that
several evictions of families with children took place, entirely
legally.
[/quote]
While the evictions were lawful, the broadcast was held not to
be in Ali & Anor v Channel 5 Broadcast Ltd [2018] EWHC 298 (Ch)
HTML https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2018/298.html
as upheld
by the Court of Appeal in Ali & Anor v Channel 5 Broadcasting
Ltd [2019] EWCA Civ 677
HTML https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2019/677.html.
#Post#: 9002--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
By: Lurker Date: November 2, 2023, 8:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Came upon this thread by chance.
OP - Please listen to what you are being told. I have worked as
a Housing Officer, and can tell you without any doubt that a
bailiff can and will force entry to a property to carry out an
eviction, and that the presence of children at the property will
not stop the eviction from being carried out. I have attended
evictions where children have been present and the eviction has
gone ahead.
You should also be aware that the site you have taken your
advice regarding the law on this is not to be relied on. At the
bottom of the home page we find:
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. (c) Action for Justice UK Ltd.
As it happens, I've come across AFJ before. They are Freeman On
The Land influenced scammers.
HTML https://www.action4justice.co.uk/
HTML https://www.action4justice.co.uk/
As others have said, if you leave children alone to deal with
this you risk them taken into care of social services, and you
may well find yourself in further legal difficulty.
#Post#: 9924--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
By: DancingDad Date: November 12, 2023, 10:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Curious minds would like to know what happened?
One suspects being as OP hasn't been back to say that it all
went as planned with bailiffs retreating in confusion that it
didn't go well.
#Post#: 10161--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
By: PeacefulWarrior Date: November 14, 2023, 9:26 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The reason I backed off and didn't answer lately is due to the
fact that I did not come here to be judged by anyone, or to be
called names. Looking back at the messages just now, some were
less than kind or helpful. Let alone supportive. And I am still
amazed how many people think they know exactly what the law
says, while being totally misguided and giving ill informed
advice. This only leads to other people bowing their heads in
front of injustice, because they didn't know their true rights.
When I posted this and said I needed 'help', I meant I was
looking for actual, practical help to deal with the situation,
and not 'I think you should be doing this, because this is what
I would do if I were you': rosywillow getting my thanks here, as
she was one on point, every time.
Thank you all for your advice, no matter whether it was based on
actual law or just influenced by TV shows, hear say or any other
questionable sources. I know you all meant well, so it is
appreciated nevertheless.
As for the curious minds? I won't torture you much longer and
rest assured I will update this thread in due time, once I have
more details, so we can all learn from this experience. For the
time being I will not engage in any further speculations about
what may or may not happen. All that matters is that one should
stick to his guns and follow his conscience, no matter what. The
truth will prevail in the end, always.
For the time being, I will leave you with the immortal words of
a great, wise man:
He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know.
Lao Tzu
*****************************************************
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page