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#Post#: 8843--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
By: guest46 Date: October 31, 2023, 2:35 pm
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This isn't going to end well............
#Post#: 8853--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
By: ivanleo Date: October 31, 2023, 5:03 pm
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[quote author=M60NJP link=topic=786.msg8843#msg8843
date=1698780937]
This isn't going to end well............
[/quote]
I fear you might be right...
#Post#: 8857--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
By: DancingDad Date: October 31, 2023, 5:42 pm
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Don't know where you are getting your information from but....
Bailiffs with correct warrant from County or High Court to
repossess a property can break in and can use reasonable force
to remove anyone within that property.
Including minors.
They have a duty of care so cannot just turf a minor onto the
street without a responsible adult, normally this would mean
Social Services being involved.
I think you may be confusing repossession of a property with
seizure of goods to satisfy a debt.
With the latter they cannot break in or enter without invitation
but they can for the first.
As for no one being able to enter with a minor present ???
Off the top of my head, Police, Customs, Gas or Electricity
Officials, Fire Brigade to name a few, warrants likely to needed
but not in all cases
#Post#: 8880--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
By: PeacefulWarrior Date: November 1, 2023, 5:17 am
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I am getting my information from reputable sources, such as
legislation.gov.uk and
HTML https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk
.
I find it a bit disappointing when people chime in with comments
like 'this isn't going to end well', while disregarding the
facts and evidence. The problem is not with the writ from the
court itself, but with the way it is being enforced and the
people who are planning to do that.
As I have stated before, there are serious causes for concern
with the person named on the writ, who claims to be someone, yet
he isn't.
I think it's best to look at the facts as they stand, rather
than start making assumptions and negative comments about how
things may or may not end. That is matter to be seen and not
speculated about. So let's keep things simple.
The situation is as follows:
1. A letter was found on the pavement on the street by our
daughter, addresses to me. It contained a letter entitled Notice
of eviction. The way the letter was delivered is a subject in
itself, as it appears to have been done very badly and not the
way it is prescribed by law. Luckily the wind did not blow it
away, or else it would have never been found. But I will let
that slide for now, as there are bigger problems to be dealt
with.
2. Seeing as we, as parents, are not in the country and there is
about a week difference between the eviction date and our
return, I contacted the Authorized Person named on the in order
to discuss the situation. He answered, claiming to be an HCEO.
Upon searching the
HTML https://www.hceoa.org.uk
, he did not appear
as a member. To me, that is a serious cause for concern. I don't
know how that looks to you, but to me, he is a liar and an
impostor.
3. Seeing that the so called HCEO is not who he claims he is, I
then filled an N244 with the court, explaining the situation and
asking for a stay of the eviction until our return.
4. I emailed the so called HCEO again and asked for more details
about the statements he made in the email he sent me, where he
stated that he is not a bailiff, but an HCEO and has the power
to force entry and remove any occupiers from the property. I
specifically asked him to point out the law where he is getting
that information from. I also asked him what kind of force he is
planning to use: break the door down? Next, I asked him how he
is going to go about removing a 15 year old from a property. By
grabbing him and forcing him to go out? Is he even allowed to do
that? He did not respond to my last email.
4. The notice is telling me exactly the time and date when the
eviction will take place, what will happen on that date and what
I can do. The person named as the Authorized Person who is
supposed to come to the property is not an HCEO, as he is not on
the lists of HCEO's. As such, he is just a person
misrepresenting himself as an HCEO. I will deal with that and
it's legal implication when I return to London. I don't think
anyone in their right mind would let someone who appears to be
an impostor come to his house and enter the premises. Hence my
instructions to my son to immediately call the Police, should
anyone by that name come to the house.
To me, what I have done so far seems to be sensible enough and
not something that would lead to an 'it won't end well' kind of
situation. I would also appreciate it if people could point out
exact references for their statements and not just personal
opinions based on preconceived ideas. They are not helpful. We
are here to help each other, not sink ships.
#Post#: 8887--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
By: Southpaw82 Date: November 1, 2023, 6:21 am
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I suspect the main issue people have is that you appear to wrong
as to the law. Specifically, that the bailiff/HCEO enforcing the
warrant can’t use force to enter the premises and can’t enter
when a minor is present. I can’t say I’ve been concerned to look
the law up but common sense would dictate that if that were so,
very few people would ever be evicted.
#Post#: 8900--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
By: PeacefulWarrior Date: November 1, 2023, 9:09 am
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Hi Southpaw. So far, no one has produced enough evidence to
substantiate the fact that indeed a HCEO can use force, or to
what extent that force can be used. I rather go by what the law
says, instead of relying on hearsay.
In my research thus far I did not come across anything to
specifically say that, hence my express requests that people
contribute with actual links to legislation.
Not to mention that the crux of the matter remains: the
Appointed Person on the Notice of eviction should also be the
same as the HCEO that will attend the property. The name I was
given came up empty, again and again. I can't confirm that he is
who he says he is. Would you trust that person coming to your
door? I am still amazed that nobody is concerned about that
being so.
Today, the so called HCEO replied to my email. Took him a while
and he probably had to dig deep and consult someone is their
legal department. However, the information he gave me and the
links to legislation are not only irrelevant to the case,
dealing with collections of fines or inapplicable situation, but
the main piece of evidence he relies upon has actually
strengthened my case against the use of force. He sent me to
look up a precedent dated 1604, Semayne's case, where I came
across this brilliant definition of it, by Sir Edward Cooke:
HTML https://www.dealingwithbailiffs.co.uk/Semayne-v-Gresham1604.htm
'The Semayne case is the origin of the modern phrase: A mans
house is his castle and this is borne out of Sir Edward Coke's
commentary - The house of everyone is to him is his castle and
fortress, as well for his defence against injury and violence as
for his repose and if thieves come to a man's house to rob or
murder, and the owner or his servants kill any of the thieves in
defence of himself and his house, it is no felony and he shall
lose nothing. This sets the common law rule that forced entry by
a bailiff cannot be made into private homes.'
#Post#: 8902--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
By: andy_foster Date: November 1, 2023, 9:25 am
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Nobody needs to prove anything to you. You can either accept the
advice given or not.
#Post#: 8904--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
By: guest46 Date: November 1, 2023, 9:44 am
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If you drip-feed things and omit key information it's hard for
anyone to be specific!
Do bear in mid not everything is enshrined in law and indeed the
law seldom says what one CAN do and most often prescribes what
one CANNOT.
#Post#: 8905--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
By: PeacefulWarrior Date: November 1, 2023, 9:49 am
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[quote author=andy_foster link=topic=786.msg8902#msg8902
date=1698848750]
Nobody needs to prove anything to you. You can either accept the
advice given or not.
[/quote]
'Nobody needs to prove anything to you.' I never asked for proof
of anything, just references. And what you say may be so, yet it
would be nice if people relied on actual law when advising
people, not personal opinion, wouldn't you agree?
'You can either accept the advice given or not.' Indeed.
#Post#: 8906--------------------------------------------------
Re: Help re an eviction notice while abroad
By: PeacefulWarrior Date: November 1, 2023, 9:55 am
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[quote author=M60NJP link=topic=786.msg8904#msg8904
date=1698849880]
If you drip-feed things and omit key information it's hard for
anyone to be specific!
Do bear in mid not everything is enshrined in law and indeed the
law seldom says what one CAN do and most often prescribes what
one CANNOT.
[/quote]
I didn't realize I was drip-feeding information, I was just
presented things as they were unfolding. If it appeared so, it
wasn't my intention.
I get what you are saying about the law and my intention is to
find out exactly what the person named on the writ cannot/is not
supposed to be doing, before he actually comes and does his
deed. Preempting is always better than remedying, just as
prevention is always better than a cure.
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