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#Post#: 87366--------------------------------------------------
SJPN for speeding and failure of identification not updated VC5.
By: Adamdidnotspeed Date: August 27, 2025, 12:52 am
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Hi
I have received a single justice procedure notice for speeding
(40 in a 30) and failing to identify the driver from West
Midlands police.
I was down as the registered keeper but I was not the driver.
The car belongs to my father and while I was using it, it was
registered to me. I moved abroad in December 23, and my father
took possession of the car. I thought he was going to sell the
car once he had finished some renovations (its a small van).
The address it was registered to was my father's property but it
was in my name. He sold it in May 24 and did not update the log
book.
He then loaned the car to a friend of his, I was not involved or
aware of this arrangement. His friend got caught speeding by a
camera in February this year. Nobody received the notice as it
was sent to the old, sold house.
I set up redirection of mail from the old address in July
because of a parking ticket we found out about (from the same
friend). That is when I received the *SJPN in August*.
I am putting together my case. My father has signed a witness
statement detailing the situation and the driver has signed one
admitting to being the sole driver at the time. I have evidence
that I am now a permanent resident in Australia.
I would really appreciate some advice.
I have been told I can plead not guilty to the charges, then
send the prosecutor the evidence in the hope that they drop the
case. Is this a good route to go down?
If so, what contact can I use for West Midlands Police to send
the evidence to? Do I have to post it or can I email it to
centralticketoffice@west-midlands.police.uk?
Can I or my father get in trouble for not updating the logbook
(it is updated correctly now)? Can I still be found guilty of
the failing to identify charge even though I didn't receive the
original notice?
Any advice will be much appreciated, as I am in a bit of a panic
here.
Many thanks.
#Post#: 87373--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJPN for speeding and failure of identification not updated
VC5.
By: andy_foster Date: August 27, 2025, 3:00 am
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A notice requiring information under s. 172 was sent to and
deemed served at your last known address.
That information was not provided.
Subject to any applicable defence, the s. 172 offence was
committed when the 28 days to provide the information expired.
For the purposes of the commission of the s. 172 offence, who
owned, kept and drove the car is immaterial.
The closest to an applicable defence would be that it was not
reasonably practicable to provide the information. Merely not
receiving the notice is not in and of itself sufficient - the
court must also be satisfied that there was nothing that you
reasonably could or should have done to ensure that such notices
were brought to your attention. I would suggest that that would
also include things that you reasonably could or should have
done to ensure that such notices were not sent to you at your
Dad's previous address.
As you did actually receive the NIP in July, but seemingly chose
to ignore it, this would tend to complicate matters further if
it were not for the fact that you have no defence to complicate.
The good news is that the speeding charge has no legs - they
have no evidence as to who was driving.
There is also a question of whether an English conviction will
be of any concern to you as an Aussie.
#Post#: 87379--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJPN for speeding and failure of identification not updated
VC5.
By: Adamdidnotspeed Date: August 27, 2025, 3:41 am
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Sorry. That was a Typo. I did not receive the NIP in July. I
received the single justice procedure notice in August because
of a redirect I set up in July. Well, I didn't receive it, my
father did and I gave him permission to open my post.
Because I did not update the address, I am certain to get
convicted? Your suggestion would be to plead guilty? Take 6
points and a fine and move on?
I was out of the country for over a year when the offence took
place and had no knowledge of what was happening with the car.
My father took full responsibility for it. I assumed he had
changed the registered keeper.
If I were not in the country during when the NIP was issued and
after, would that not be "not reasonably practicable to provide
the information?"
If my father was to admit that he took responsibility of the car
and changing the registered keeper would that work? Or is it my
responsibility as the registered keeper?
If the driver were to admit to and accept the speeding, could I
potentially get them to drop the failing to identify the driver?
How would I go about that?
Thanks
#Post#: 87384--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJPN for speeding and failure of identification not updated
VC5.
By: Adamdidnotspeed Date: August 27, 2025, 4:00 am
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[quote]"There is also a question of whether an English
conviction will be of any concern to you as an Aussie."[/quote]
I might plan to return to the UK in 2 or 3 years. So would
prefer not to have the conviction on my record.
I don't earn very much, have no points and have never owned a
car, so if the only penalty is 6 points and a fine, it might be
worth taking it but if I come back in 2 years and decide to get
a car I have read that my insurance premium will be much higher.
Is this true?
#Post#: 87387--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJPN for speeding and failure of identification not updated
VC5.
By: Adamdidnotspeed Date: August 27, 2025, 4:13 am
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Also, my visa situation in Australia is still pending. I applied
for a partner visa in December last year and am currently on a
bridging visa. As this will be a criminal conviction that could
have an impact with that.
#Post#: 87391--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJPN for speeding and failure of identification not updated
VC5.
By: NewJudge Date: August 27, 2025, 4:49 am
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[quote]I assumed he had changed the registered keeper.[/quote]
The responsibility to do that is yours. Whilst you can devolve
the task to somebody else, you cannot devolve the responsibility
for doing so.
[quote]If I were not in the country during when the NIP was
issued and after, would that not be "not reasonably practicable
to provide the information?"[/quote]
No. The courts take a somewhat broader view and accept that
being the Registered Keeper of a vehicle involves certain
responsibilities. One of those is ensuring you can be contacted
readily when any matters concerning it arise. This was
established in the case of Whiteside vs DPP:
HTML https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5a8ff73060d03e7f57ea95b1
[quote]If the driver were to admit to and accept the speeding,
could I potentially get them to drop the failing to identify the
driver?[/quote]
That ship sailed long ago.
I doubt the police will take much notice of your
representations. Once court action has been initiated they very
rarely rescind that action. As well as that, the defence you are
offering is not one they would normally consider themselves
anyway (even if they had not begun court action). They would
want the issues aired and examined properly in court where they
can be challenged (i.e. “cross-examined”) by their prosecutor.
[quote]…so if the only penalty is 6 points and a fine, it might
be worth taking it…[/quote]
You should not see this as something over which you have a
choice. If you are convicted you will face a fine and six
points. You are correct that the resulting endorsement code
(MS90) will have a significant impact on your insurance premiums
in the UK for up to five years.
#Post#: 87392--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJPN for speeding and failure of identification not updated
VC5.
By: Adamdidnotspeed Date: August 27, 2025, 5:05 am
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Oh man. This is really not what I wanted to hear.
My worse fear is that there might be another fine that I have
not received yet. Is there anyway to find out if there are NIP I
don't know about?
#Post#: 87396--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJPN for speeding and failure of identification not updated
VC5.
By: JustLoveCars Date: August 27, 2025, 6:00 am
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[quote author=Adamdidnotspeed link=topic=7816.msg87392#msg87392
date=1756289110]
Is there anyway to find out if there are NIP I don't know about?
[/quote]Not really.
[quote author=Adamdidnotspeed link=topic=7816.msg87387#msg87387
date=1756286031]
Also, my visa situation in Australia is still pending. I applied
for a partner visa in December last year and am currently on a
bridging visa. As this will be a criminal conviction that could
have an impact with that.
[/quote]I doubt such non-recordable offences would have an
impact.
#Post#: 87399--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJPN for speeding and failure of identification not updated
VC5.
By: Adamdidnotspeed Date: August 27, 2025, 6:19 am
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I would argue that my case is not exactly like Whiteside vs DPP
but I could be wrong.
1. The nature of my absence is different - Frequently absent
abroad vs Permanently resident abroad
2. It was sent to their address vs my father's former address,
which was sold 10 months previously (from the date of offence) –
This is relevant to the question “If a written notice posted to
a defendant's address was not actually received by the
defendant, can it still be considered properly served for the
purposes of section 172(2)(a)?” as it was not sent to my address
3. It was their vehicle and they were responsible for it vs it's
my father's vehicle and he took responsibility for it 20 months
ago.
4. I was unaware I was still the registered keeper and I was
unaware of the status of the car
5. Upon discovery, I took positive, demonstrable steps (set up
mail redirection, immediately investigated to identify the
driver, obtained signed witness statements and will proactively
provide all this information to the police)
#Post#: 87403--------------------------------------------------
Re: SJPN for speeding and failure of identification not updated
VC5.
By: NewJudge Date: August 27, 2025, 7:08 am
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[quote]1.The nature of my absence is different - Frequently
absent abroad vs Permanently resident abroad[/quote]
An even more important reason why you should have ensured that
any correspondence relating to the vehicle would be properly and
promptly handled (with the most reliable way of doing that being
to change the Registered Keeper).
[quote]2.It was sent to their address vs my father's former
address,…[/quote]
The police have only one address to correspond with – that of
the Registered Keeper - as maintained by him. They have no duty
to send reminders or try to trace the RK if they do not receive
a response. The principle being questioned in “Whiteside” was
whether a notice sent to that address could be deemed “served”
(and so satisfy the requirements of s172) even if it had not
actually been seen by the intended recipient. The court ruled it
could.
[quote]3.It was their vehicle and they were responsible for
it…[/quote]
But you were the Registered Keeper and as I said, you cannot
delegate the Registered Keeper’s responsibilities.
[quote]4.I was unaware I was still the registered keeper and I
was unaware of the status of the car…[/quote]
That is entirely your fault. One of your responsibilities as RK
is to ensure the DVLA records are changed when you are no longer
the keeper of the vehicle (if appropriate, which in my view it
was in your circumstances).
[quote]5. Upon discovery, I took positive, demonstrable
steps…[/quote]
But far too late.
The conclusion you seemed to have arrived at is that in your
situation any number of offences could have been committed by a
person driving a vehicle of which you were the registered keeper
and no action could be taken against them (because the police
did not know who they were) or you (because you had left the
country). It doesn’t work like that.
Case law establishes principles, not rules which can be applied
in every set of circumstances. I have little doubt that a court
hearing your defence will be directed to "Whiteside" and asked
to rule that the principles in that case apply to yours.
The options for you (if an approach to the police fails, as I
imagine it will) are:
To either plead guilty (a fine of one week’s net income, a
surcharge of 40% of that fine, £90 costs and six points). Or…
To plead not guilty and face a trial. The outcome in that case
if you are convicted will be a fine of 1.5 weeks’ net income,
the same 40% surcharge, around £650 costs and six points. Or, of
course, nothing at all if you are acquitted.
Bear in mind that pleading not guilty and facing a trial will
require your attendance in court (unless the court agrees to you
sending a legally qualified representative, who you will have to
pay for).
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