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#Post#: 87318--------------------------------------------------
Gemini Parking Solutions Parking PCN – Exceeded Maximum St
ay Period – Burger King, Gants Hill
By: Atlas8592 Date: August 26, 2025, 1:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hello,
I received an email today from my leasing company stating I've
received a PCN for the driver overstaying the 1 hour limit.
Here is what happened on the day allegedly:
Upon entering the car park in the evening when it was dark, the
driver found a space to charge the vehicle, parked up, but
struggled with the charging, but eventually managed to get it
started, and rested while the car charged, but when they left
the car park they had exceeded the maximum parking period.
The sign board that I've attached is not near the parking spot.
The part which confuses me when appealing this is my lease
company hasn't given Gemini Parking Solutions my details, but
rather provided a "Third Party Authorisation Letter" so I'm
wondering do I just appeal directly and attach the letter, I
can't claim I'm the registered keeper as I'm not rather just the
lessee.
I've spoken to the landowner in person (manager), but he did the
equivalent of telling me to sod off.
How do I approach this? I've heard IAS are not to be trusted and
won't listen to appeals.
Attached is the PCN, sign board and authorisation letter.
Thank you.
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#Post#: 87339--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gemini Parking Solutions Parking PCN – Exceeded Maximum Stay
Period – Burger King, Gants Hill
By: DWMB2 Date: August 26, 2025, 2:37 pm
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You should tell your leasing company to read the cunningly
hidden part of the PCN marked "HOW TO TRANSFER LIABILITY", and
tell them that they should provide your details as the hirer.
#Post#: 87341--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gemini Parking Solutions Parking PCN – Exceeded Maximum Stay
Period – Burger King, Gants Hill
By: b789 Date: August 26, 2025, 2:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Your lease company are utter idiots. Which bit of this on the
back to the Notice to Keeper (NtK) they received were they
unable to comprehend?
[indent][b]If you are a hire or leasing company, please provide
us with a signed statement confirming the hirer's name and
address and include a copy of both the hire/leasing agreement
and their statement of liability.
Documents can be submitted by visiting
www.geminiparkingsolutions.com or by post to PO Box 5767,
Dingwall, IV15 OAX. For hire or lease companies, please provide
us with a signed statement confirming the hirer's name and
address and include a copy of both the hire agreement and their
statement liability.[/b][/indent]
Their letter of authority is not the way to transfer liability
and they remain liable if Gemini want to chase them, which means
that you will probably be charged when the Tusker morons just
pay the charge. You also know they are intellectually
malnourished when they refer to a Parking Charge Notice (PCN), a
civil matter, as a Penalty Charge Notice which is a statutory
matter. A speculative invoice for an alleged breach of contract
by the driver from an unregulated private parking firm is not
and can never be a "penalty".
THe NtK is addressed to Tusker who are the Keeper. You are the
Hirer. In order to transfer liability, Tusker must follow the
instructions on the back of the NtK and once they have done
that, Gemini must issue a Notice to Hirer (NtH) in your name and
then you can deal with it.
PCNs for hired/leased vehicles are "golden tickets" as long as
the hire/lease company correctly transfer the liability as
required under PoFA 2012 paragraph 13. You can then guarantee
that Gemini will fail to fully comply with PoFA paragraph 14 and
there can be no transfer of liability to the Hirer, as long as
the driver is not identified. There is no way that anyone could
know who the driver is unless the Hirer blabs it, inadvertently
or otherwise.
For now, you need to send the following to Tusker and make sure
you CC in yourself:
[quote]Subject: Private parking charge – formal instruction to
transfer liability under PoFA 2012 (hire vehicle)
Tusker reference: [Tusker ref if any]
Gemini PCN reference: [PCN reference]
Vehicle: [VRM] — Event date: [dd/mm/yyyy] — Site: [Location]
Dear Tusker,
You have forwarded a Notice to Keeper addressed to you as the
keeper, with a “third-party authorisation”. That does not
transfer liability under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012
(PoFA).
To discharge keeper liability for a hire/lease vehicle you must,
within 28 days of the NtK being “given” (deemed delivered two
working days after the issue date), give the creditor the
documents prescribed by PoFA Schedule 4 paragraph 13(2): (1) a
signed statement naming the hirer and confirming the hire at the
material time together with the hirer’s address for service; (2)
a copy of the hire/lease agreement; and (3) a copy of the
hirer’s signed statement of liability. Your own NtK reiterates
this requirement:
[indent]“If you are a hire or leasing company, please provide us
with a signed statement confirming the hirer’s name and address
and include a copy of both the hire/leasing agreement and their
statement of liability.”[/indent]
Action required now: send the PoFA paragraph 13(2) documents to
Gemini and make clear that this is a formal PoFA transfer.
Instruct Gemini to correspond with me as the hirer and to serve
any Notice to Hirer at the address below. Do not make payment.
Hirer details for service
Name: [Full name]
Address: [Postal address]
Email/phone (optional): [Details]
Your correspondence repeatedly refers to a “Penalty Charge
Notice”. That is wrong and misleading. A Penalty Charge Notice
is a statutory instrument issued by public authorities (for
example under the Traffic Management Act 2004 or the London
Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003). It engages
a formal statutory process (PCN → Notice to Owner →
representations → adjudicator at London Tribunals/Traffic
Penalty Tribunal), and any sums are payable to the public
authority. By contrast, a Parking Charge Notice from Gemini is a
civil, contractual invoice issued by a private company on
private land. It is not a “penalty”, there is no statutory
enforcement or adjudication, and any sum is payable to the
private operator; keeper liability (if any) arises only via
strict compliance with PoFA Schedule 4. Conflating these terms
is embarrassing for a leasing firm and risks being a misleading
action or omission contrary to the Consumer Protection from
Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.
Please correct your templates and confirm by return that: (a)
you have completed the PoFA transfer; (b) you will not pay or
recharge any sum relating to this private parking notice; and
(c) all future references will correctly describe such notices
as Parking Charge Notices.
For the avoidance of doubt, I do not admit to being the driver
and I am under no legal obligation to do so.
Yours faithfully,
[Name]
[Date][/quote]
You can also send the following to Gemini, again CC yourself:
[quote]Subject: PCN [PCN reference] – Hirer correspondence and
requirement for Notice to Hirer
Gemini Parking Solutions
PCN reference: [PCN reference]
Vehicle: [VRM]
Event date: [dd/mm/yyyy]
Location: [Site]
Dear Sir or Madam,
Please find attached a letter from Tusker authorising me to
correspond in relation to the above matter. I am the hirer of
the vehicle.
Until a valid Notice to Hirer is issued in my name at the
address below, I am not obliged to respond further. Please place
the matter on hold and confirm that no further action will be
taken or passed to third parties pending service of a Notice to
Hirer.
This is not an appeal and should not be treated as such.
Hirer details for service
Name: [Full name]
Address: [Postal address]
Email/phone (optional): [Details]
Enclosure: Tusker authorisation letter
Yours faithfully,
[Name][/quote]
#Post#: 87346--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gemini Parking Solutions Parking PCN – Exceeded Maximum Stay
Period – Burger King, Gants Hill
By: Atlas8592 Date: August 26, 2025, 3:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you that is very detailed.
I'll get those emails over to the relevant parties and come back
when I have more.
Enjoy your time off!
#Post#: 90012--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gemini Parking Solutions Parking PCN – Exceeded Maximu
m Stay Period – Burger King, Gants Hill
By: Atlas8592 Date: September 15, 2025, 8:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
After chasing Tusker they've come back with the following:
"As our agreement/contract isn't with you but is in fact with
your employer we cannot transfer liability to you. Please obtain
written confirmation from your employer they are happy to take
on the transfer of liability on behalf of you as the driver of
the vehicle"
Not had a chance yet, but I need to re-read the contract to see
if this is true.
If this is true, what would the next steps be?
#Post#: 90019--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gemini Parking Solutions Parking PCN – Exceeded Maximum Stay
Period – Burger King, Gants Hill
By: Atlas8592 Date: September 15, 2025, 8:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
This is what Gemini said when I initially emailed them:
"Thank you for contacting Gemini Parking Solutions
My apologies for the delay in responding to you.
Having investigated this, a transfer of liability has been sent
by the leasing company, once this has been actioned a parking
charge will be issued.
Once this has been issued, this will allow you to pay or appeal
through our website."
#Post#: 90028--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gemini Parking Solutions Parking PCN – Exceeded Maximum Stay
Period – Burger King, Gants Hill
By: b789 Date: September 15, 2025, 9:47 am
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If your company is the 'Hirer' then you will need a Letter of
Authority (LoA) from them that authorises you to respond to the
NtH on their behalf.
#Post#: 91353--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gemini Parking Solutions Parking PCN – Exceeded Maximum Stay
Period – Burger King, Gants Hill
By: Atlas8592 Date: September 24, 2025, 1:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
My company hasn't given me the authorisation letter yet and
Tusker didn't seem like they were going to liaise with Gemini,
yet I got this letter and nothing else.
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#Post#: 91425--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gemini Parking Solutions Parking PCN – Exceeded Maximum Stay
Period – Burger King, Gants Hill
By: b789 Date: September 25, 2025, 6:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I'm going to assume that that Notice to Hirer (NtH) has been
sent to you, in your name. Was there anything else included with
that NtH?
Assuming nothing else was included with that NtH (they usually
fail to comply with this), they cannot hold the Hirer liable.
Only the driver can be liable and they have no idea who that is,
unless you tell them, which you are under no legal obligation to
do so.
So, if I am correct with my assumptions above, you can appeal
that NtH with the following:
[quote]I am the Hirer of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking
charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I
will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your
client landowner.
As your Notice to Hirer (NtH) does not fully comply with ALL the
requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the Hirer of
the vehicle liable for the charge. You have failed to comply
with PoFA ¶14(6). Partial or even substantial compliance is not
sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and
no inference or assumptions can be drawn. Gemini has relied on
contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.
The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the
driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law
of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. Gemini have
no hope at IAS and even less should you be so stupid as to try
and litigate, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste
of time and cancel the PCN.[/quote]
#Post#: 91431--------------------------------------------------
Re: Gemini Parking Solutions Parking PCN – Exceeded Maximum Stay
Period – Burger King, Gants Hill
By: Atlas8592 Date: September 25, 2025, 6:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=b789 link=topic=7812.msg91425#msg91425
date=1758798218]
I'm going to assume that that Notice to Hirer (NtH) has been
sent to you, in your name. Was there anything else included with
that NtH?
Assuming nothing else was included with that NtH (they usually
fail to comply with this), they cannot hold the Hirer liable.
Only the driver can be liable and they have no idea who that is,
unless you tell them, which you are under no legal obligation to
do so.
So, if I am correct with my assumptions above, you can appeal
that NtH with the following:
quote]I am the Hirer of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking
charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I
will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your
client landowner.
As your Notice to Hirer (NtH) does not fully comply with ALL the
requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the Hirer of
the vehicle liable for the charge. You have failed to comply
with PoFA ¶14(6). Partial or even substantial compliance is not
sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and
no inference or assumptions can be drawn. Gemini has relied on
contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.
The Hirer cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the
driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law
of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. Gemini have
no hope at IAS and even less should you be so stupid as to try
and litigate, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste
of time and cancel the PCN.[/quote]
[/quote]
Correct, this is the Notice to Hirer and nothing was included,
just the letter.
Am I able to appeal even though I'm not the Hirer by what Tusker
has said?
I'm assuming they sent this to me based off the email I sent
them, but they didn't wait for anything from Tusker and sent
this in a rush to get their money.
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