DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 94855--------------------------------------------------
Re: Another Barnet 50L Performing prohibited no left turn
TILLING RD/Brentfield Gardens NW2
DIR By: StatusBaby
Date: October 20, 2025, 11:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I have nothing else to go on, the reduced fine rate option has
been and gone. I therefore plan to make an appeal based on the
evidence presented in THIS
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nQlu0kbGwEvoOIadtk58IlkCRoEcDLMb/view<br
/>case by cp8759.
The appeal linked above makes reference to AN FOI REQUEST
HTML https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-information/foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-3038-2425<br
/>in which the case officer states:
Please see the attached document ‘FOI-3038’. On the map, the
blue line shown going down from the main road to ‘cycle way’ is
the end of the TfL Network. This can also be seen in the
attached picture, there are ‘End of Clearway’ signs. Beyond that
point roads belong to the London Borough of Barnet.
The banned left signs shown in the image are covered by GLC
Order from 1976, and would be for the Borough to enforce. A
copy of the Order is attached for your information.
However, the map supplied by TFL shows that at the point where I
turned left, the road is in fact a GLA road.
I will therefore appeal on this basis quoting the various cases
cited by cp8759 and the two upheld appeals here
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UEoaFM5zlMcWqDcrYp6YeUap2EfkGeJC/view<br
/>and here
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nQlu0kbGwEvoOIadtk58IlkCRoEcDLMb/view.
I must admit to feeling completely our of my depth - so any
further help or advice would be appreciated.
#Post#: 106163--------------------------------------------------
Re: Another Barnet 50L Performing prohibited no left turn
TILLING RD/Brentfield Gardens NW2
DIR By: StatusBaby
Date: January 16, 2026, 6:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
My appeal was due today at 2pm via Teams. I got a call this
morning to say that Barnet had failed to submit any evidence and
that I did not therefore need to attend the appeal.
I have been told the adjudicator will write to me with the
outcome.
I'll update further when I have more info.
#Post#: 106201--------------------------------------------------
Re: Another Barnet 50L Performing prohibited no left turn
TILLING RD/Brentfield Gardens NW2
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: January 16, 2026, 9:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: StatusBaby link ---
>
> My appeal was due today at 2pm via Teams. I got a call this
morning to say that Barnet had failed to submit any evidence and
that I did not therefore need to attend the appeal.
>
> I have been told the adjudicator will write to me with the
outcome.
>
> I'll update further when I have more info.
>
--- End Quote ---
The outcome is that you have won.
#Post#: 106251--------------------------------------------------
Re: Another Barnet 50L Performing prohibited no left turn
TILLING RD/Brentfield Gardens NW2
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: January 17, 2026, 3:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
You won because Barnet changed parking contractor on 1 December
and a secret source has told me they are in turmoil, my pending
Barnet tribunal cases are all slowly being binned off. Happy
days.
#Post#: 106302--------------------------------------------------
Re: Another Barnet 50L Performing prohibited no left turn
TILLING RD/Brentfield Gardens NW2
DIR By: StatusBaby
Date: January 17, 2026, 12:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Well I've won and I should be happy - but I have been denied my
proverbial day in court. After spending hours preparing my case,
not to mention taking time off work to attend the tribunal, I am
not happy that Barnet have acted this way >:(
At the very least I would have appreciated advanced notice so
that I didn't waste a half-day holiday from work. A phone call
form the Tribunal just a few hours beforehand doesn't cut it. I
previously took TFL to appeal, and at least they had the decency
to write to me a couple of weeks before the hearing to let me
know they were not contesting the appeal.
If there were any justice, Barnet should now be paying me!
I really hope that all of the work I put in - based on the work
of many others in this community - provides a useful repository
to help the next motorist who is penalised at this location make
a valid appeal.
#Post#: 106304--------------------------------------------------
Re: Another Barnet 50L Performing prohibited no left turn
TILLING RD/Brentfield Gardens NW2
DIR By: mrmustard
Date: January 17, 2026, 12:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I probably know more about this location now than any other
person. I lost in case 2240465350 after a lot of research and I
decided the adjudicator was correct so I did not review. I no
longer fight PCNs at this location as any driver who turns there
has missed ample signage.
#Post#: 106305--------------------------------------------------
Re: Another Barnet 50L Performing prohibited no left turn
TILLING RD/Brentfield Gardens NW2
DIR By: StatusBaby
Date: January 17, 2026, 1:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Mr Mustard - you are a legend - but I respectfully suggest you
think again.
As part of my research I read the ruling on case 2240465350, and
if that were the only evidence I would not have contested the
PCN. However, case 2250099929 introduced significant new
evidence in the form of a map from TFL released under a FOI
request. The map clearly shows that the sign and the exact
location where the turn would be made is, as a matter of fact, a
GLA road.
The adjudicator in case 2250099929 stated:
"There is no evidence before me that would persuade me that the
official map provided by Transport for London is wrong. In light
of that finding, I find as a fact that the Appellant's vehicle
turned left from a GLA road into Brentfield Gardens, and section
4(3) of the 2003 Act requires that in such circumstances the
prior written consent of TfL is required before a penalty charge
can be served by this Authority"
and the appeal was upheld.
I would urge anyone who receives a PCN to read through case
2250099929 before paying what I am convinced is an unlawfully
issued PCN.
I wanted my day in court because I understand that the Tilling
Rd/Brentfield Gardens location is one of the biggest PCN revenue
sources for Barnet. Laws apply to all - to motorists as well as
to councils. The issue in this case is not the quality of the
signage, but the legality of the PCN. If the council are
required by law to have the written permission of TfL to issue
PCNs at that location - as I and the adjudicator of case
2250099929 believe, then they should complete the formalities
and obtain it.
#Post#: 106324--------------------------------------------------
Re: Another Barnet 50L Performing prohibited no left turn
TILLING RD/Brentfield Gardens NW2
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: January 17, 2026, 7:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: StatusBaby link ---
>
> Well I've won and I should be happy - but I have been denied
my proverbial day in court. After spending hours preparing my
case, not to mention taking time off work to attend the
tribunal, I am not happy that Barnet have acted this way >:(
>
> At the very least I would have appreciated advanced notice so
that I didn't waste a half-day holiday from work. A phone call
form the Tribunal just a few hours beforehand doesn't cut it. I
previously took TFL to appeal, and at least they had the decency
to write to me a couple of weeks before the hearing to let me
know they were not contesting the appeal.
>
> If there were any justice, Barnet should now be paying me!
>
> I really hope that all of the work I put in - based on the
work of many others in this community - provides a useful
repository to help the next motorist who is penalised at this
location make a valid appeal.
>
--- End Quote ---
Two comments: firstly, you could apply for costs if you think
the council has behaved in a wholly unreasonable manner, see
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/costs
(you can claim £19
an hour for the time you have actually spent on the case,
whether the adjudicator will agree is of course another matter).
Secondly, I think you've taken a wholly unjustified amount of
time off work for this. Half a day for a 45 minute hearing?
C'mon. I've previously seen a TPT hearing where an appellant
asked for a whole day because he booked a day off work for a 30
minute hearing, the adjudicator said they'd not entertain
anything of the sort as the time claimed was out of all
proportion.
When I ask clients to attend a hearing, most people will move
around the start or end of their shift or take an extended lunch
break, many workplaces measure annual leave by the hour rather
than by the day or the half day, and if your workplace is
unreasonably inflexible then it's still not clear why the
taxpayer should bear the burden of that.
To the extent that you want to claim time for attending the
hearing, you'd be really lucky to get an hour at most. If there
was really no way you could attend the hearing other than
booking a half day off work, your grievance is really with your
employer rather than with the council.
#Post#: 106387--------------------------------------------------
Re: Another Barnet 50L Performing prohibited no left turn
TILLING RD/Brentfield Gardens NW2
DIR By: StatusBaby
Date: January 18, 2026, 8:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
>
> Two comments: firstly, you could apply for costs if you think
the council has behaved in a wholly unreasonable manner, see
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/costs
(you can claim £19
an hour for the time you have actually spent on the case,
whether the adjudicator will agree is of course another matter).
>
> Secondly, I think you've taken a wholly unjustified amount of
time off work for this. Half a day for a 45 minute hearing?
C'mon. I've previously seen a TPT hearing where an appellant
asked for a whole day because he booked a day off work for a 30
minute hearing, the adjudicator said they'd not entertain
anything of the sort as the time claimed was out of all
proportion.
>
> When I ask clients to attend a hearing, most people will move
around the start or end of their shift or take an extended lunch
break, many workplaces measure annual leave by the hour rather
than by the day or the half day, and if your workplace is
unreasonably inflexible then it's still not clear why the
taxpayer should bear the burden of that.
>
> To the extent that you want to claim time for attending the
hearing, you'd be really lucky to get an hour at most. If there
was really no way you could attend the hearing other than
booking a half day off work, your grievance is really with your
employer rather than with the council.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks for your response and for taking the time to engage with
my case. I genuinely appreciate the work you and others do in
maintaining this excellent resource.
I should begin with an apology. When I said Barnet should be
paying me, it was intended as a flippant or humorous remark
rather than a serious demand. In hindsight I should have made
that clearer by using a ;) emoji instead of the exclamation
mark, so apologies for any confusion caused.
To be absolutely clear, I do not expect the taxpayer to
reimburse me for the half-day I took off work. If my post gave
that impression, I apologise. My point was to contrast the
approach taken by TfL, who gave sufficient notice to avoid any
disruption, with that of Barnet. While the taxpayer is not being
asked to foot the bill, it is worth noting that a taxpayer – me
– has already borne the cost.
This was a complicated case, involving archaic legislation and
detailed maps that required careful examination. I am not
accustomed to tribunals, and conducting the hearing via Teams
added to my anxiety. To represent myself properly, I felt I
needed to be at home with a stable internet connection, my
annotated documents and printed maps to hand, and in an
environment free from interruption. That required an hour’s
commute from work. Factoring in the hearing itself and the
return journey, booking the afternoon off seemed the most
sensible option.
Had I been represented by an expert, I might have felt confident
enough to attend via my phone, relying on a patchy 4G connection
and without access to my materials. But I was not, so I did what
I felt was necessary. This was my choice, and as stated, I am
not seeking compensation for it. My frustration stems from the
fact that Barnet failed to notify me in advance that they were
not contesting the appeal – a simple courtesy that would have
avoided the situation entirely.
While I accept that some people can adjust their working hours
or take extended lunch breaks, that simply isn’t possible in my
line of work. Annual leave is not measured in hours in my field,
and this is standard practice not unreasonable inflexibility.
My grievance is not with my employer or my terms of employment.
It is with Barnet Council, who continue to issue large numbers
of PCNs at this location. I believe they may be acting ultra
vires, and by failing to engage with the appeals process they
have denied me the opportunity – if not to prove this outright –
then at least to contribute to the body of evidence that may one
day do so. They will continue issuing PCNs, and most motorists
will pay simply because contesting them is disproportionately
onerous.
According to this article
HTML https://www.times-series.co.uk/news/15676382.barnet-council-earns-17m-at-tilling-road-junction-over-one-year/<br
/>Barnet Council earn approximately £1.7m per year from PCNs at
this single junction – revenue that could potentially be ruled
ultra vires. That, in my view, is where the real concern lies.
I won’t be posting further in this thread except to assist other
drivers who have received a PCN at this location and wish to
challenge it, in which case I’ll do my absolute best to help. If
that is you, please drop a note in this thread with a link
pointing me to the new thread you have started for your case.
#Post#: 106425--------------------------------------------------
Re: Another Barnet 50L Performing prohibited no left turn
TILLING RD/Brentfield Gardens NW2
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: January 18, 2026, 2:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[member=1550]StatusBaby[/member] given the explanation you've
given, I think you have a fair shot at making an application for
costs. There would be no burden on the taxpayer, as they'll just
use their ill-gotten gains from other PCNs to pay you, assuming
you even get a costs order in the first place. Obviously you
won't be able to claim for the half day annual leave for the
reasons I have given, but you can claim at least an hour for the
hearing plus the time you've taken preparing for the hearing
(subject to any claim having to be proportional to the amount at
stake).
And I have to agree, if they had DNC'ed the case a few days in
advance you could have cancelled your annual leave and I think
it was wholly unreasonable for the council to behave in this
way.
*****************************************************
Page 2 of 2
DIR Previous Page