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#Post#: 87314--------------------------------------------------
Another Barnet 50L Performing prohibited no left turn TILLING
RD/Brentfield Gardens NW2
DIR By: StatusBaby
Date: August 26, 2025, 12:54 pm
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I received this PCN and was about to pay when I thought I'd
check here - and it would appear that there is grounds for
appeal as Tilling Rd is a GLA road and the Council would
therefore need written consent of the GLA before it can enforce
the convention. That is detailed here:
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/barnet-pcn-for-illegal-left-turn/msg36339/?topicseen#msg36339
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/barnet-pcn-for-illegal-left-turn/msg36339/?topicseen#msg36339
But that is quite an old post - so seeking your expert advice
before I start the appeals process with Barnet.
Full post here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-for-illegal-left-turn/
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-for-illegal-left-turn/
Happy to take this all the way if your advice is to fight the
good fight!
Link to PCN letter
HTML https://imgur.com/a/wwqVxYq
HTML https://imgur.com/a/wwqVxYq
HTML https://imgur.com/a/wwqVxYq
#Post#: 89418--------------------------------------------------
Re: Another Barnet 50L Performing prohibited no left turn
TILLING RD/Brentfield Gardens NW2
DIR By: StatusBaby
Date: September 10, 2025, 2:39 pm
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Appeal to Council going in tomorrow - comments/advice
appreciated.
Dear Sir/Madam,
Re: PCN AG49512224
Alleged Contravention: 50L Performing a prohibited turn (no left
turn)
Tilling Road is designated a GLA road by virtue of the GLA Roads
(No.3) Designation Order 2008 and therefore written consent of
the GLA is required before Barnet Council can enforce this
contravention.
The London Tribunals case reference 2230545486 upheld an Appeal
on this basis for the same contravention on 22nd January 2024.
If Barnet Council have subsequently obtained consent in writing
from the GLA to enforce this contravention on Tilling Road,
please send me a copy.
If The London Borough of Barnet does not have written consent
from the GLA to enforce this contravention at Tilling Rd.,
please withdraw the PCN.
Yours faithfully etc.
#Post#: 93902--------------------------------------------------
Re: Another Barnet 50L Performing prohibited no left turn
TILLING RD/Brentfield Gardens NW2
DIR By: StatusBaby
Date: October 13, 2025, 10:46 am
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Hi - so the appeal was rejected (of course!) on the basis that
the London Borough of Barnet is the authorised authority for
this location - and inviting me to view the TMO.
I'm no expert in this field - but my understanding is that the
TMO is not relevant in my appeal.
Can anyone just give me a nod as to if my appeal is still valid
and if I should consider going to Tribunal or throw in the towel
now?
Here are the links - please note I have tried using the "Insert
an image" option - but it is not working as you will see if you
look at the code. Hence I have posted the links to the files.
Apologies in advance.
Original PCN
[img]
HTML https://ibb.co/tTnHnZ4y[/img]
HTML https://ibb.co/tTnHnZ4y
HTML https://ibb.co/tTnHnZ4y
My appeal is posted in this thread.
Rejection p1
[img]
HTML https://ibb.co/23ykL5Zd[/img]
HTML https://ibb.co/23ykL5Zd
HTML https://ibb.co/23ykL5Zd
Rejection p2
[img]
HTML https://ibb.co/svmSLKpZ[/img]
HTML https://ibb.co/svmSLKpZ
HTML https://ibb.co/svmSLKpZ
Rejection p3
[img]
HTML https://ibb.co/NnGkyCKf[/img]
HTML https://ibb.co/NnGkyCKf
HTML https://ibb.co/NnGkyCKf
Advice gratefully received - with thanks in advance.
#Post#: 94447--------------------------------------------------
Re: Another Barnet 50L Performing prohibited no left turn
TILLING RD/Brentfield Gardens NW2
DIR By: StatusBaby
Date: October 17, 2025, 2:17 am
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Anyone able to help?
#Post#: 94457--------------------------------------------------
Re: Another Barnet 50L Performing prohibited no left turn
TILLING RD/Brentfield Gardens NW2
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 17, 2025, 4:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: StatusBaby link ---
>
> Anyone able to help?
>
--- End Quote ---
It's an appeal argument I have seen before, but I'm not
up-to-speed on it. It would only be tested at London Tribunals.
One or two people on here have had experience of appeals based
on this, but may be on holiday in sunnier climes. You have the
right in law to take them to London Tribunals on this basis,
with the full PCN penalty in play.
We've seen this location a few times before, so have a look at
the London Tribunals Statutory Register using the location on
the PCN as the search argument, (plus a date range, of course)
HTML https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/about/registers-appeals
#Post#: 94461--------------------------------------------------
Re: Another Barnet 50L Performing prohibited no left turn
TILLING RD/Brentfield Gardens NW2
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 17, 2025, 4:48 am
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Can't find this: GLA Roads (No.3) Designation Order 2008
Do you have a link?
#Post#: 94549--------------------------------------------------
Re: Another Barnet 50L Performing prohibited no left turn
TILLING RD/Brentfield Gardens NW2
DIR By: StatusBaby
Date: October 17, 2025, 4:14 pm
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The link to the GLA Roads (No.3) Designation Order 2008
is HERE
HTML https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1dmzc0AJXf0tw_JL5aRpLNt5nO-dbq-St
downloads PDF
The discussion about this exact location and issue between
CP8759, Karma and ashirusnw is here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-for-illegal-left-turn/15/
There is also a previous appeal heard and upheld on this issue
here
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UEoaFM5zlMcWqDcrYp6YeUap2EfkGeJC/view
Many thanks
#Post#: 94598--------------------------------------------------
Re: Another Barnet 50L Performing prohibited no left turn
TILLING RD/Brentfield Gardens NW2
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 18, 2025, 7:12 am
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Odd that this order doesn't appear on legislation.gov website.
I wonder whether the incorrect reference to Barking and Dagenham
for Barnet has been altered.
So it's item 57 under the second listing of B&D in the Schedule.
We can't check the TMO because you've deleted your VRM and
partly redacted your VRM. Pl reinstate both in full.
The cited cases were not decided on the grounds that Tilling is
or isn't a GLA road, rather the lack of evidence from the
authority to this effect when the burden lies with them.
If me, I would write back to council, not the authority.
To the Chief Executive.....
Barnet Council Acting Ultra Vires
I am bringing this matter to your attention as it is being
ignored by those with direct responsibility who are seeking
shelter under an umbrella of anecdote and received wisdom and
'no-one will find out' rather than investigating matters as they
should. I am referring to what I believe are the unlawful
demands made by the enforcement authority arm of the council
exercising powers under the London Local Authorities and
Transport for London Act 2003, specifically those penalties
raised in respect of Tilling Road.
I submit that the law in this matter is not complex.
By virtue of s3(1) and s3(2) of The GLA Roads (No.3) Designation
Order 2008, Tilling Road is designated as a GLA Road, s4(1) and
s4(3) of The London Local Authorities and Transport for London
Act 2003 therefore have effect. The council of the LB Barnet is
therefore prevented from enforcing any contraventions which
would otherwise be exercisable in respect of breaches of
provisions of any Traffic Management Order without 'the consent
in writing of Transport for London'.
At no time has the authority adduced evidence of this consent at
adjudication by the Environment and Traffic Adjudicators who
have always allowed appeals on this point. It is unfortunate
that ETA is not a regulator nor has any oversight duties
otherwise it is likely that they would have written to you
earlier on this matter. Similarly Transport for London.
Please investigate this matter and if the council possess the
necessary consent in writing please supply a copy.
I am sure that the scale of this issue will not have escaped
you. Bearing in mind that all demands of owners for payment of
penalties pursuant to the LLA for Tilling Road and all other
GLA-designated roads(I anticipate that you would broaden your
internal enquiries to cover these) would be rendered ultra vires
and in all likelihood refundable then the cost to the council
would be significant.
Thank you.
Yours***
#Post#: 94604--------------------------------------------------
Re: Another Barnet 50L Performing prohibited no left turn
TILLING RD/Brentfield Gardens NW2
DIR By: StatusBaby
Date: October 18, 2025, 7:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure what you mean by TMO - and Google isn't much help.
Although I redacted the VRM and PCN numbers in the rejection
letters, I did not in the original PCN which is here:
[img width=400]
HTML https://ibb.co/tTnHnZ4y[/img]
The img code does not appear to be working - please click HERE
HTML https://ibb.co/tTnHnZ4y
#Post#: 94610--------------------------------------------------
Re: Another Barnet 50L Performing prohibited no left turn
TILLING RD/Brentfield Gardens NW2
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 18, 2025, 8:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Traffic Management Order
4Penalty charges for road traffic contraventions
(1)This section applies where—
(a)in relation to a GLA road or GLA side road, Transport for
London or, subject to subsection (3) below, the relevant borough
council; or
(b)in relation to any other road in the area of a borough
council, the relevant borough council or, subject to subsection
(4) below, Transport for London,
have reason to believe (whether or not on the basis of
information provided by a camera or other device) that a penalty
charge is payable under this section with respect to a motor
vehicle
....
5)Subject to subsection (6) below, for the purposes of this
section, a penalty charge is payable with respect to a motor
vehicle by the owner of the vehicle if the person driving or
propelling the vehicle—
(a)acts in contravention of a prescribed order; or
(b)fails to comply with an indication given by a scheduled
section 36 traffic sign
..
“prescribed order” means an order under section 6 or 9 of the
Act of 1984 [a Traffic Management Order] which makes provision
for a relevant traffic control
The authority referred to a TMO in their reply.
In short:
TMOs make restrictions, lack of compliance with which is a 'road
traffic contravention' or similar expression. However,
enforcement of these is only possible under other legislation
e.g. Traffic Management Act, LLA etc.
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