DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 87605--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow Council parking ticket outside my home - going to
court ADVICE NEEDED!
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: August 28, 2025, 3:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Eits1000 link ---
>
> Hi, yes everything you state in your first paragraph is
exactly correct.
>
> The car was registered by the dealer I purchased it from. A
private small business import specialist. Obviously I had no
clue about emissions data at the time. The car is petrol and is
indeed ulez compliant.
>
> So the tribunal thingie, do I appeal the £140 letter there or
do I first appeal following instructions given on the letter - I
believe I have 28 days for representation.
>
> What do you suggest I do next?
>
> Many thanks.
>
--- End Quote ---
You have to submit representations to the council and get them
rejected first, before you can register an appeal at London
Tribunals.
#Post#: 87622--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow Council parking ticket outside my home - going to
court ADVICE NEEDED!
DIR By: Eits1000
Date: August 28, 2025, 5:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
OK will do thanks. Any tips on how to do the council appeal?
#Post#: 87631--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow Council parking ticket outside my home - going to
court ADVICE NEEDED!
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: August 28, 2025, 5:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Eits1000 link ---
>
> OK will do thanks. Any tips on how to do the council appeal?
>
--- End Quote ---
Well, I don't think I am qualified to suggest a draft
representation, but I think you would need to outline the events
which gave rise to the PCN being served, namely the council
refusal to renew the permit at its existing rate. The statutory
ground would be "the penalty exceed the relevant amount in the
circumstances of the case"
In parallel to following the process, I think you need to get
your local coucnillor involved, that's what they're there for,
things like this !
Final question - is your car ULEZ-exempt ? If so then put this
into your reps. It does seem Harrow officials are behaving in a
somewhat bovine way. But I think closure will only come when you
get an emissions rating applied to your car's record in the
DVLA.
#Post#: 87691--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow Council parking ticket outside my home - going to
court ADVICE NEEDED!
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: August 29, 2025, 9:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The car shows as compliant on the TFL ULEZ checker
HTML https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/check-your-vehicle/
and also on
the gov.uk Clean Air Zones checker
HTML https://www.gov.uk/clean-air-zones.
The DVLA would have assigned an unissued VRM to the car
consistent with the reported date of 1st registration in it's
country of origin. In this case this is said to be September
2013. So it's been issued with a 63 series VRM. So some proof of
that date was likely supplied with the registration application.
In order to determine compliance the ULEZ and CAZ checkers will
first look at the VRM. If it's later than Jan 1st 2006, then for
a petrol car then it will assume the car is compliant. This is
because it would not have been legal to register a new petrol
non-compliant (with Euro 4) car on or after the 1st Jan 2006. At
least that is the case with a UK market car, which is not the
scenario here.
It looks like the actual emissions are not further checked for
possible compliance unless the car doesn't pass the VRM check.
So does that mean that the DVLA will ignore Euro compliance for
a non UK/EU car when it gets re-registered in the UK?
Or is it the case that that evidence of emissions have to be
provided with the registration application? The rules seem to
be very opaque.
And it seems that the Single Vehicle Approval test can be waived
where the car is more that 10 years old.
In any event surely the MOT test centre would have to test the
car to the same emissions standards that apply to the equivalent
domestic model. Not to mention that Japanese emissions standards
will be at least as stringent as the UK/EU standards and may
even be tougher.
I suggest you go back to the dealer who sold the car. Ask them
about what information and documentation they supplied to the
DVLA to register the car? And what happened to the emissions
info?
#Post#: 87698--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow Council parking ticket outside my home - going to
court ADVICE NEEDED!
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: August 29, 2025, 10:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
An alternative view:
You held a permit for this car;
The permit carries an expiry date of 19 Jan 2025. You say it
expired in March;
You tried to renew - we have no idea for how long this
continued, but certainly beyond the notice period which they
probably gave you and and 'grace' period after expiry - but did
not like the rate offered...I'm certain this affects '000s of
motorists annually;
You decided to continue to park in a res only bay while you
argued the toss about tariff. We have not seen any of this
correspondence and for all we know they wrote and said if you
cannot prove your entitlement to a different council tariff then
we will commence enforcement from **** if you have not secured
alternative parking rights;
You were issued with PCNs which you have not paid;
The only council correspondence you've posted does not support
your version of events 'Also we have no communication from the
permit team to confirm there was issues with issuing your permit
or they encountered any issues.';
You could have obtained alternative parking rights at a charge
but you decided not to.
So, why would disagreeing with the council tariff be statutory
grounds of appeal at adjudication?
#Post#: 87711--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow Council parking ticket outside my home - going to
court ADVICE NEEDED!
DIR By: Eits1000
Date: August 29, 2025, 11:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
So at the end of all this messaging your conclusion is that I've
just been a very naughty boy and I need to pay up and not bother
the council? Just because I've not posted the conversations
between myself and the council.
I'm not sure why things are so unclear for you, I've summarised
it several times, there isn't really a need to post every email
conversation, you just need to trust me - I tried to get a
permit, it wasn't the correct price band so I asked them to
please lower it, to which they said no. I tried lots of times
and whilst doing so I got two tickets.
There isn't anything they said thst jumps out, they said it
would be unfair to other residents if they lowered my tarrif
without the proper certification from bmw. They refused the mot
version of my emissions and also refused my like for like auto
trader comparison.
Nothing more to this really. They were super slow to respond
sometimes over 2 weeks. My permit ran out in March not January.
Even if it was January, it doesn't matter really - I syarted
discussions on January.
Does anyone have any useful advise for me?
#Post#: 87712--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow Council parking ticket outside my home - going to
court ADVICE NEEDED!
DIR By: Eits1000
Date: August 29, 2025, 11:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Or should I just pay them £280 and be done with it?
#Post#: 87716--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow Council parking ticket outside my home - going to
court ADVICE NEEDED!
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: August 29, 2025, 12:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
You have 2 x Notices to Owner @ £140 each?
You need to either pay them or submit representations
challenging them. So £280.
Assuming you challenge and get rejected then you can appeal to
the independent adjudicator. If you lose at adjudication then
the bill will still be £280.
So if you are willing to put the effort in then I would have a
go, you don't have a financial incentive to do otherwise.
And Harrow night also re-offer the discount reducing the bill to
2 x £70.
That said I don't hold out much hope with the adjudication.
However anything can happen, Harrow might well mess up their own
case.
My advice with very few exceptions is to always challenge PCNs,
all the way. You'll win more often that you will lose. And don't
worry you will be getting more and more of them to fight.
#Post#: 87718--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow Council parking ticket outside my home - going to
court ADVICE NEEDED!
DIR By: catnip
Date: August 29, 2025, 12:45 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Eits1000 link ---
>
> So at the end of all this messaging your conclusion is that
I've just been a very naughty boy and I need to pay up and not
bother the council? Just because I've not posted the
conversations between myself and the council.
>
> I'm not sure why things are so unclear for you, I've
summarised it several times, there isn't really a need to post
every email conversation, you just need to trust me - I tried to
get a permit, it wasn't the correct price band so I asked them
to please lower it, to which they said no. I tried lots of times
and whilst doing so I got two tickets.
>
> There isn't anything they said thst jumps out, they said it
would be unfair to other residents if they lowered my tarrif
without the proper certification from bmw. They refused the mot
version of my emissions and also refused my like for like auto
trader comparison.
>
> Nothing more to this really. They were super slow to respond
sometimes over 2 weeks. My permit ran out in March not January.
Even if it was January, it doesn't matter really - I syarted
discussions on January.
>
> Does anyone have any useful advise for me?
>
--- End Quote ---
You need to obtain the CoC from BMW to confirm the emissions
data:
#Post#: 87725--------------------------------------------------
Re: Harrow Council parking ticket outside my home - going to
court ADVICE NEEDED!
DIR By: Eits1000
Date: August 29, 2025, 1:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you, I just spoke to the dealer I bought the car from and
he sent me the link for requesting coc from BMW!
But how do I proceed regarding the councils fines...?
*****************************************************
Page 4 of 8
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page