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       #Post#: 86827--------------------------------------------------
       Unsigned NIP in Scotland
       By: star-zone-20 Date: August 22, 2025, 12:25 pm
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       I've been looking for pedipoo as I used that back in 2018 with
       success doing the unsigned NIP in Scotland. It seems it's now
       gone and this is the go to for such topics.
       I'm planning to repeat what I did in 2018 but just want to make
       sure I'm doing everything in the correct order.
       Date of Offence: 18/06/25
       Date of Issue: 16/07/25
       (I believe this delay is related to me forgetting to update my
       V5 and tax then I moved address)
       I filled in the NIP but returned it unsigned within 28 days, I
       then received it back with the signature and date area
       highlighted, dated 13/08/25 requesting for it to be signed and
       dated. I planned to wait 28 days again and send it again but I
       have since received another.
       Date of Issue 18/08/25
       Date of Offence: 18/06/25  (same offence)
       Informing me the 28 days has now elapsed and no response has
       been received bu the office. (untrue due to the other letter
       dated 13/08/25) and requesting I return and sign the new NIP
       IMMEDIATELY.
       Should I wait 28 days as planned and resend the previous or
       should I respond with the new one at once?
       I am expecting to have a knock at the door which I intend to
       ignore but just trying to spin it out as long as possible as I
       believe after 6 months I should be clear?
       #Post#: 86864--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Unsigned NIP in Scotland
       By: andy_foster Date: August 23, 2025, 4:06 am
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       Don't know, don't care.
       This is not a precise process. The advantage of stringing them
       along is the possibility of timing out the offence - them
       continuing this silly dance until it is too late to instigate
       court proceedings. Clearly not going to happen.
       The fact that you have received a reminder out of the sequence
       you were expecting at most means that court proceedings might be
       instigated sooner than you were expecting, or that the polis
       might start lurking in your garden sooner than you were
       expecting.
       Case law (Scottish) tells us that (for the purposes of
       instigating proceedings at least) there is only one s. 172
       offence committed (if it is committed at all), and that is
       committed at the expiration of the original 28 days. Subsequent
       reminders are nothing more than a kind offer to "undo" the
       offence by complying with the requirements out of time.
       The fact that the template letter says "no response", rather
       than "no acceptable response" is neither here nor there - beyond
       showing the level of diligence and intelligence being expended
       upon this matter.
       The 6 months for any s. 172 offence is committed at the
       expiration of the 27 days from (28 days beginning with) the date
       of service of the original notice to that person (which in E&W
       is deemed to be 2 working days after posting).
       Where your case potentially differs from the standard unsigned
       case in Scotland, is that you [presumably] utterly failed to
       respond to the original notice sent to your previous address. If
       they were to expend any diligence or intelligence on this case,
       that would seem to be a slam dunk easy win for them if it were
       to go to contested trial. In E&W it could be argued that
       prosecuting for the original failure if a subsequent reminder
       was complied with would be an abuse of process. However, this
       would leave the question of whether incomplete compliance with
       the stated requirement was sufficient to render the prosecution
       an abuse, and as I understand it, abuse of process isn't a thing
       north of the border.
       #Post#: 86869--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Unsigned NIP in Scotland
       By: NewJudge Date: August 23, 2025, 4:54 am
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       I think a lot depends on what happened in the four weeks before
       you received your NIP.
       If the police served a NIP and a s172  request on you at your
       last known address (which you failed to update) they have done
       all they need to do. There is no requirement for them to send
       reminders or to trace where you now live. They can prosecute you
       for failing to respond to that s172 request and you have no
       defence to it.
       As Andy says, whether the police will be intelligent enough to
       realise that what has happened since the original 28 days
       expired is really irrelevant, is a chance you will have to take.
       But if they sent a s172 request to your last known address and
       you did not respond to it in time, you had already committed the
       offence by the time you received their reminder (or roughly by
       then).
       You will have to rely on them believing that the second request
       (to which you responded -  in their view -  improperly) is the
       one which matters. And it isn't.
       #Post#: 86906--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Unsigned NIP in Scotland
       By: star-zone-20 Date: August 23, 2025, 8:43 am
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       Thanks for taking time to respond.
       Ahhh, I never thought about the first NIP.  :-\
       So does that mean I have messed it up? or does the same formula
       "work" in theory?
       Is there no point in me returning any more of these unsigned
       then?
       #Post#: 86913--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Unsigned NIP in Scotland
       By: andy_foster Date: August 23, 2025, 9:46 am
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       You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?'
       Well, do ya, punk?
       If they treat it as a simple unsigned case, they will probably
       d*ck you around as much as they can until the start of the trial
       and then drop the case if you don't blink first. If they pick up
       on the fact that the first notice sent to your last known
       address as RK was not responded to, not so much.
       The only advantage I can see in playing the merry dance of
       returning each reminder unsigned, is the possibility that their
       system links the s. 172 offence date to the date of the first
       notice sent to your current address, and the actual s. 172
       offence times out - which would seem unlikely as they tend to
       dual charge with with speeding offence which would time out a
       month or more earlier.
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