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#Post#: 87090--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Stopping in a yellow box junction (Crystal Palace
Parade/Bus Garage, Bromley Council)
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: August 25, 2025, 5:41 am
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You need to tread carefully here. Adjudicators don't look
favourably on vehicles blocking buses, and this is a bus
station, not a garage. There was a case soe months ago for a
similar situation, (bus station and YBJs at entrance and eit)
which the appellant lost.
#Post#: 87103--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Stopping in a yellow box junction (Crystal Palace
Parade/Bus Garage, Bromley Council)
DIR By: Pastmybest
Date: August 25, 2025, 7:21 am
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I represented a case some time ago perhaps the one you are
thinking of. That was an exit from a bus only street somewhat
similar but not the same.
Ms Peirce was having non of the arguments I put, but in truth I
onlt tried because the Op had nothing to use
The box extends beyond the junction is also another avenue. If
hippo is taking this on then i will liaise
with him re the two arguments
#Post#: 87137--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Stopping in a yellow box junction (Crystal Palace
Parade/Bus Garage, Bromley Council)
DIR By: MrChips
Date: August 25, 2025, 12:04 pm
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Do those two arguments include mine? Not sure how the council
can prove the OP was blocked by a stationary vehicle that can't
be seen...
#Post#: 87167--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Stopping in a yellow box junction (Crystal Palace
Parade/Bus Garage, Bromley Council)
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: August 25, 2025, 3:44 pm
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Just looked again at this, and beyond the YBJ it is two traffic
lanes. The approach to the YBJ is bus lane plus traffic lane, so
the OP would have approached the YBJ in the traffic lane so his
space opposite would be in the second lane, not the first. This
means the video does not show the contravention, because it
doesn't show anything of the street beyond the YBJ as the bus is
obstructing the camera. So as the evidence shows no stationary
vehicle in the second lane, therefore cannot show a
contravention, therefore the PCN must be cancelled.
#Post#: 87217--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Stopping in a yellow box junction (Crystal Palace
Parade/Bus Garage, Bromley Council)
DIR By: IC3GB
Date: August 26, 2025, 5:18 am
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Hi [member=24]Hippocrates[/member],
This is a gentle prod to you as suggested.
Thanks to everyone who has commented on this thread thus far, I
have just received a rejection from Greenwich for another PCN
which was received prior to me learning of this forum and so I
will start another thread relating to that later.
Thanks in advance.
#Post#: 87479--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Stopping in a yellow box junction (Crystal Palace
Parade/Bus Garage, Bromley Council)
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: August 27, 2025, 1:49 pm
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--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> They have amended their PCN:
>
> This is correct:
>
>
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/section/4/enacted
>
> (v)that, if the penalty charge is not paid before the end of
the 28 day period, an increased charge may be payable;
>
> However, they cannot take steps to enforce the increased
charge until 28 days from the date of service:
>
>
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/enacted
>
> Charge certificates
> 5(1)Where a penalty charge notice is served on any person and
the penalty charge to which it relates is not paid before the
end of the relevant period, the enforcing authority may serve on
that person a statement (in this paragraph referred to as a
“charge certificate”) to the effect that the penalty charge in
question is increased by 50 per cent.
>
> (2)The relevant period, in relation to a penalty charge notice
is the period of 28 days beginning—
>
> (a)where no representations are made under paragraph 1 above,
with the date on which the penalty charge notice is served;
>
> (b)where such representations are made and a notice of
rejection is served by the enforcing authority and no appeal
against the notice of rejection is made with the date on which
the period within which an appeal could have been made expires;
or
>
> ****
>
> I'll draft a collateral challenge tomorrow. Please prod me as
I am super busy.
>
--- End Quote ---
I make these formal representations against the PCN.
1. The alleged infraction is de minimis.
2 I make this collateral challenge regarding the validity of
the PCN:
The council cannot "take steps to enforce recovery of the
increased charge" until 28 days from the date of service of
the PCN as provided at Para 5 ff. of
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/enacted
Charge certificates
5(1)Where a penalty charge notice is served on any person and
the penalty charge to which it relates is not paid before the
end of the relevant period, the enforcing authority may serve on
that person a statement (in this paragraph referred to as a
“charge certificate”) to the effect that the penalty charge in
question is increased by 50 per cent.
(2)The relevant period, in relation to a penalty charge notice
is the period of 28 days beginning—
(a)where no representations are made under paragraph 1 above,
with the date on which the penalty charge notice is served;
(b)where such representations are made and a notice of rejection
is served by the enforcing authority and no appeal against the
notice of rejection is made with the date on which the period
within which an appeal could have been made expires; or
***************
BEFORE you do this please screenshot the representations page.
#Post#: 88001--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Stopping in a yellow box junction (Crystal Palace
Parade/Bus Garage, Bromley Council)
DIR By: IC3GB
Date: September 1, 2025, 10:29 am
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[member=24]Hippocrates[/member]
Thank you for providing the above, this was sent last week and
I'm now awaiting the response from Bromley.
I have also saved a screenshot of the representations page as
instructed.
Thanks again.
#Post#: 88031--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Stopping in a yellow box junction (Crystal Palace
Parade/Bus Garage, Bromley Council)
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: September 1, 2025, 2:35 pm
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;D Please keep us posted. This will be an interesting one.
#Post#: 90957--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Stopping in a yellow box junction (Crystal Palace
Parade/Bus Garage, Bromley Council)
DIR By: IC3GB
Date: September 22, 2025, 10:58 am
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I Have just returned from a trip out of the country and have
received a NoR from Bromley, please see the attached link.
Bromley Notice of Rejection of Representations
HTML https://imgur.com/a/F7yPvzp
Thanks in advance.
#Post#: 90969--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN Stopping in a yellow box junction (Crystal Palace
Parade/Bus Garage, Bromley Council)
DIR By: MrChips
Date: September 22, 2025, 12:28 pm
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At the risk of repeating myself, how do Bromley know there was a
stationary vehicle blocking the exit? The video does not show
which exit was selected by the driver, nor does it show any
blockage in two of the three exit lanes as these are obscured by
the bus.
I feel it would be a good idea to include this point in any
appeal as well as the technical arguments advanced thus far.
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