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#Post#: 8660--------------------------------------------------
Re: Residential Parking Enforcement - right to opt out?
DIR By: 1Pilgrin1
Date: October 29, 2023, 11:00 am
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It just feels like the Management Company have given over
all/any control to the Parking Enforcement company which doesn't
seem right?
#Post#: 8667--------------------------------------------------
Re: Residential Parking Enforcement - right to opt out?
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 29, 2023, 1:11 pm
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Thanks.
What are the exact breaches alleged, I can't see them in the
PCN?
And what did you write to the Mgmt Co. Pl include dates: are we
talking about days, weeks, months ago?
Sorry to appear pedantic, but an answer(their reply) can only be
seen in the context of a question, your letter/email, which
we've not seen.
My thoughts are that it's the Mgmt Co. who should be in your
crosshairs: parking contractors come and go, but the MC are in
place continuously. You need to tell them where their authority
ends. Don't back away from this.
You have no authority over my space - see my lease - and it
appears that you've either led your contractor to think they
have or they've exceeded their authority. In either case you
need to clarify matters with them. My enclosed letter to ***(the
contractor) on this matter is self explanatory but if I get any
resistance from them then regretfully I shall be coming back to
you etc. etc.
OP, you cannot act as if your lease doesn't say and mean what it
does, it's not your choice.
But we need to know the alleged breach(es) and your email.
#Post#: 8806--------------------------------------------------
Re: Residential Parking Enforcement - right to opt out?
DIR By: 1Pilgrin1
Date: October 31, 2023, 3:22 am
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Hi,
the breaches are for not displaying a parking permit.
I don't have a permit as I had opted out of the parking scheme
which had been originally introduced by a previous management
company.
A new management company took over about a year ago and in July
they emailed to say a new parking enforcement company were being
introduced.
I replied back stating that I had opted out of the scheme and
wished to continue to opt out.
I didn't get a reply so assumed this had been acknowledged
Then on the 21st Sept I received my first ticked and immediately
raised this with the management company.
They wrote to say:
EMIAL:
[i]Every permit holder must abide by this new parking control
scheme.
It is not possible to opt out of this new scheme.
To keep using this car park, you will need to pick up a new
permit that complies with the new scheme.
*********
I then called to query this as I wasn't a "permit holder" in the
first place and that I had always opted out of any scheme.
Over the course of following 3 weeks I placed multiple calls to
the Management Company that were promised a reply from the
Property Manager but this never happened. During this time I
received a second ticket in early October and subsequently have
had to park off-site ever since so as to avoid getting any
further tickets.
I gave the Management Company email confirmation of my opt-out
but they wrote back to say:
EMAIL:
Apologies for not getting back to you yesterday, I was under the
impression one of the on-site staff was going to go to your flat
and knock on and have a chat regarding the parking.
As far as we (XXXX, XXXX board of directors) are concerned, you
cannot be exempt from a parking space.
I would take this up with the parking company – UKPS and query
it with them for further clarification as they are the one who
enforce the tickets to un-permited cars.
****************
I have have help off replying until I get some advice here as to
what to do.
There is nothing within the Deed of covenant or in the tenancy
agreement about a parking scheme.
Thanks
Richard
#Post#: 8827--------------------------------------------------
Re: Residential Parking Enforcement - right to opt out?
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 31, 2023, 11:32 am
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Thanks.
Dear Sir,
Re: ***************
On ** and **** my vehicle, VRM ****, was issued with Parking
Charge Notices presumably issued by your staff. These purport to
claim that the driver is indebted to you for a parking charge
for which they are liable by virtue of them breaching a
contract. The contract in question being one which you believe
all drivers who park in the **** area enter into with
yourselves. In the case of these PCNs the alleged breach was
'parking without displaying a permit'.
It follows from this that you believe that while parked in a
space which is demised under my lease, and is therefore land
over which in this context I have unfettered rights, I can in
some way be subject to terms and conditions which apply to
common areas. I was not privy to (mgmt co's) tendering process
or indeed the terms of your agreement, but if you believe that
you may exercise any control and rights over my land then you
have been misinformed.
At present I am prepared to accept that this has been a simple
breakdown in communication between you and ****(mgmt co.) which
I leave to you to repair-I have copied this letter to them.
However, please be aware that you are now on notice that you may
not enter onto my property for any purpose other than that which
in my absolute discretion I may grant you. **** (mgmt co.) are
similarly excluded other than for the discharge of their
functions to ensure that covenants and general matters regarding
maintaining good order are complied with.
Please confirm your receipt and agreement to the above and that
the charges have been cancelled.
Hugs,
To the Mgmt Co.
Re: ****(your address)
I am the leaseholder of the above. The demised property consists
of ****(address) and parking place *****.
As you know by virtue of our recent communication, you have
employed a contractor to exercise functions regarding parking
within the estate. For some reason the contractor seems to
believe that the scope of their contracted authority extends to
the private property of occupiers of the estate. Even as I wrote
this and hopefully as you read it you will understand that this
cannot be the case and in my case it certainly is not.
Please see the copy of a letter I have written to
***(contractor) on this matter. I am now writing to you in
similar terms. Your authority to exercise control over my
property is limited to those functions which fall to you to
ensure that occupiers comply with the terms of their tenancy
agreements and their undertakings to comply with various
covenants and the maintenance of the estate in general. Other
than in limited cases, you are not permitted to exercise control
over or enter occupiers' property, and this includes property in
the form of parking places demised under a lease.
If you wish to enter onto my property then I may authorise you
to do so and enforcing parking rules against unauthorised
vehicles would seem to be a case in point. Indeed, at times I
have acquiesced to your request to display a permit to assist
your contractor manage the parking area. But any implied
authority does not include allowing you to charge me for parking
on my land whether with or without a permit. Such a belief is
frankly absurd.
I hope we can find some common ground in this issue, but for now
I am writing to inform you that, as per the enclosed letter,
your contractor may not enter onto my property or purport to
exercise rights over it. For the avoidance of doubt, any prior
authorisations which you might consider have been given by me in
this regard are immediately revoked.
For comment.
#Post#: 8867--------------------------------------------------
Re: Residential Parking Enforcement - right to opt out?
DIR By: 1Pilgrin1
Date: November 1, 2023, 2:41 am
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many thanks for this
#Post#: 8868--------------------------------------------------
Re: Residential Parking Enforcement - right to opt out?
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: November 1, 2023, 2:48 am
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I think the approach of contacting both the management company
and the parking company is sensible. Obviously the urgent issue
is addressing the live charge, but the underlying issue involves
the management company.
#Post#: 9392--------------------------------------------------
Re: Residential Parking Enforcement - right to opt out?
DIR By: thevaliant
Date: November 6, 2023, 11:30 am
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Where's the lease?
The Deed of Covenant is what you use when you assign the lease.
The 'rules' are just a piece of paper.
If your lease grants you the right to a space, marked out on the
plan, then I'd be more straightforward.
"Dear sirs,
As per the lease (attached) between myself and FREEHOLDER of
DATE, you will note that I have leased the land on which my
vehicle was parked from DATE to [999 years from now]. There is
no requirement in the lease to display a permit, and even if
there were, failure to do so would be a breach of the lease
remedy of which is between myself and the FREEHOLDER.
For the avoidance of doubt, I am the landholder of the land my
vehicle was parked upon.
If any party has been misled into believing that they (or
someone else) is the landholder and that they can enforce a
parking regime on my spot, that is between those two parties.
I will not be paying a parking charge for parking on my own
property, nor will I display a 'permit'.
Yours etc,"
But only IF the land is yours. What does your lease show?
#Post#: 10201--------------------------------------------------
Re: Residential Parking Enforcement - right to opt out?
DIR By: 1Pilgrin1
Date: November 14, 2023, 1:49 pm
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Hi,
so I have queried the fines with the Parking Enforcement company
and I am still waiting to hear back.
I am not wanting to challenge the decision from the Management
Company that doesn't allow me to opt out.
I get the feeling the decisions are just being made off the cuff
so I wanted to start with an exploratory letter.
Hopefully somebody can advise me whether the attached might make
an OK starting point so I understand what they believe is their
legal position.
thanks
Richard
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 10359--------------------------------------------------
Re: Residential Parking Enforcement - right to opt out?
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: November 15, 2023, 5:54 pm
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--- Quote from: 1Pilgrin1 link ---
>
> so I have queried the fines with the Parking Enforcement
company
>
--- End Quote ---
What do you mean by this, what did you send them?
--- Quote from: 1Pilgrin1 link ---
>
> I am not wanting to challenge the decision from the Management
Company
--- End Quote ---
Out of interest, why not? It may not be a decision that is in
their power to make, after all.
I note we still haven't seen the lease. But from what we've seen
it does seem that the space is yours, I'd therefore suggest the
focus of your proposed letter ought to be different - the
important thing here is not necessarily that they aren't
allowing you to 'opt out' of any parking scheme, it's that
they've potentially signed a contract with the parking company,
granting that company rights that are not the management
company's to grant (i.e. to operate on your land).
My personal view is that any letter you send will be far more
compelling if you assert your position, which they would have to
counter to explain why they believe UKPS can operate, rather
than just asking them what they think their position is.
#Post#: 10429--------------------------------------------------
Re: Residential Parking Enforcement - right to opt out?
DIR By: 1Pilgrin1
Date: November 17, 2023, 8:10 am
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Thanks your your reply and I'll re-phase the letter.
In my previous message I meant to write "I am now wanting"
rather than "not wanting"
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