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#Post#: 86582--------------------------------------------------
PCN received in "club parking" bay
DIR By: gettingbetter
Date: August 20, 2025, 5:45 pm
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Hi all,
I received a PCN for parking my car in a "car club bay"
(contravention 91). This "car club bay" is on a residential
block and not the main street. The development is 6 years old,
and the bay has only been enforced, from my understanding now,
within the last 6 months. The bay is located in Southwark. From
my research into the Traffic Sign Regulations, this bay does not
correspond to the prescribed legend “Car Club Only” as required
(under TSRGD 2016), neither does it have clear carriageway
markings to match, like other bays of the same restriction. I
understand an upright sign is optional and not always required.
Furthermore, according to Southwark Council’s own published
guidance (as per
HTML https://www.southwark.gov.uk/parking-streets-and-transport/parking/places-park/car-clubs),<br
/>car club bays should be clearly marked both with appropriate
road markings stating “Car Club Only.”
The bay in which I parked does not meet these requirements and
does not adequately inform motorists of any restriction relating
to car clubs. I sent in images of the bay in question, and
another in the same area with the correct markings/optional
signage in my appeal. I can find plenty more in the same borough
if I had the time.
I initially appealed the parking ticket of these reasons,
however the council did not address my points regarding the
regulations and information on their own site. The response was
lacklustre and assumed I had "difficulties finding somewhere to
park".
I am waiting for the NTO to formally appeal as I believe I have
a chance here, but do you think I am being realistic?
Unfortunately, the 14 days discounted rate has passed to pay the
PCN, but my main concern is that Southwark are not addressing
the inconsistencies in the parking regulations and the bay in
question. I'd appreciate your help.
ahh - I can't seem to attach any PDF's or images of the parking
ticket, appeal and appeal response as they're all too large,
even when compressed! As added description the bay displays the
text "club parking". There are no road markings and no upright
signage. No other parking spaces have road markings either, but
are free for residents.
#Post#: 86583--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN received in "club parking" bay
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: August 20, 2025, 5:50 pm
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Please have a read of the READ THIS FIRST - **BEFORE POSTING
YOUR CASE!**
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/<br
/>sticky post at the top of this forum. It contains instructions
on how to post images and documents.
Please post up the PCN with no redactions except your name &
address, if present.
#Post#: 86614--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN received in "club parking" bay
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: August 21, 2025, 4:22 am
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You appear to have an off-street PCN so your challenge was
off-topic.
You've blanked the location on the pic but without details we
can't help you.
#Post#: 86624--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN received in "club parking" bay
DIR By: gettingbetter
Date: August 21, 2025, 5:28 am
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Hi, thank you for the responses and for directing me to the
instructions on how to add images. I have reformatted the images
and pasted them to the recommended site for viewing. please let
me know if there are any issues viewing the images. I have
posted the PCN, my appeal, the councils response, and the
parking bay in question. I have also included an image of a
similar parking bay in the area, though this bay is on the Main
Street.
link:
HTML https://imgur.com/a/wug23oF
#Post#: 86641--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN received in "club parking" bay
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: August 21, 2025, 6:35 am
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You need to post the council's pics.
Southwark has put up an on-street permit parking area sign at
the entrance to an off-street car park.
But it has issued a code 91 off-street contravention but 'Parked
in a car park or area not designated for that class of vehicle'
makes no sense with a legend that just says club parking and
there is no upright sign.
Could it be the Tufty Club? Fans of Only Fools and Horses?
When was this scheme in Shield Street introduced - if at the
same time as the North Peckham Estate order there is no mention
of any club bay but the map here shows no parking places in
Shield Street:
HTML https://services.southwark.gov.uk/assets/attach/51928/N-Peckham-Estate-Parking-Zone-notice-dated-5-Aug-2021-.pdf
Furthermore there is no terms board for this car park telling
you what to do. Ivan won a case here on this basis (see below).
If it looks like nonsense it probably is.
You can see this 'club' bay here:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/vZ0TVDK.png
Case reference 224053735A
Appellant xxxxx
Authority London Borough of Southwark
VRM V11 KDV
PCN Details
PCN JK11077172
Contravention date 09 Jan 2024
Contravention time 11:31:00
Contravention location North Peckham Estate
Penalty amount GBP 130.00
Contravention Parked without a valid permit where required
Referral date -
Decision Date 08 Jan 2025
Adjudicator Martin Hoare
Appeal decision Appeal allowed
Direction cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.
Reasons 1. Mr xxxxx was represented by Mr Murray- Smith in this
appeal hearing. The Authority made a 6 January 2025 adjournment
request so that it could consider the 27 December 2024 skeleton
argument. No reason was offered for the lateness of the request
or why it had not been possible to consider the skeleton
argument prior to the scheduled hearing.
2. Given the above and that Tribunal resources and hearing time
had already been allocated to this matter, it was not in the
interests of justice that the matter was adjourned.
3. Mr Murray-Smith relied on his skeleton argument. The key
point of which is that the signage was not adequate
4. The penalty charge notice alleged ‘Parked without a valid
virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid physical permit
where required’.
5. According to the Authority summary ‘There is a sign at the
entrance to where the vehicle was parked, that explains that the
place they had parked in is for people with an estates permit.
the PCN was issued as the Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO)
observed the vehicle parked without a valid virtual permit or
clearly displaying a valid permit.’
6. The Authority plan, civil enforcement officer’s photographs
and photographs establish that this car was parked without a
permit in an off street car park.
7. The are close up images of a permit holders parking only
beyond this point sign. The photographs do not show the position
of the signage in the context of the location as a whole. This
photograph does not establish that the signage was conspicuous.
Signage must be conspicuously positioned if it is to form the
basis for lawful enforcement.
8. Furthermore, the sign does not suggest that that the area
subject to enforcement is in fact an off street car park. On a
highway, all motorists must know the signs prescribed by the
Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016
(TSRGD).This does not apply to an off street car park. There is
no evidence of signage such as a board, informing motorists that
they are in fact in a car park subject to specific conditions
and statutory controls.
9. The evidence on this occasion does not establish that the
signage was conspicuous.
10. The appeal is allowed.
#Post#: 86644--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN received in "club parking" bay
DIR By: gettingbetter
Date: August 21, 2025, 6:51 am
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Hi StamfordMan,
Many thanks for reviewing my post and adding your comments. I am
in total agreement. When I did my research before my initial
appeal, I found information online confirming my thoughts that
"Club Parking" is very ambiguous and the relevant upright
signage should follow to give drivers clarity.
As such, I thought I had a good case for appeal, but Southwark
are adamant on rejecting most appeals even for legitimate
reasons.
To answer your question, the "Club Parking" bay was introduced
in 2019 when the residential development was built/finished. The
bay in question was not enforced until this year (to my
knowledge), even after the North Peckham Estate residential
parking was introduced in 2021. I have parked in this bay a
number of times with no issues.
Thank you for including Ivans case. I will review further and
take note of arguments I could use once I receive the NTO. I've
never taken a penalty this far so I am in unfamiliar territory
here, but I am so sure I have a good case for getting the PCN
cancelled.
#Post#: 86646--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN received in "club parking" bay
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: August 21, 2025, 7:01 am
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Please post the council's pics as we need to check we've not
missed anything. If you can't do it PM me the details and I'll
blank your VRM as you seem to be worried.
Are you the registered keeper and is the V5C logbook address
correct.
If you look at the order I posted I can only conclude that
Shield Street while subject to estate permit parking has no
designated bays at all.
#Post#: 86674--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN received in "club parking" bay
DIR By: gettingbetter
Date: August 21, 2025, 10:49 am
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Hi Stamfordman,
I'm happy to post the councils pics. I've never joined/posted in
a forum before so still finding my feet. Apologies! I guess I'm
also conscious that private/council parking offices scour these
sites to strengthen their defence, but maybe I'm thinking too
deeply into it haha.
Per your question, the vehicle was a multiyear leased car which
I've now returned to the dealership. I was the registered owner,
with a V5C and my address for the PCN is/was correct. You are
correct in that Sheild Street has no designated parking bays.
I've attached the council images here. Also happy to DM if you
have any issues accessing -
HTML https://imgur.com/a/t73jK5l
#Post#: 89588--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN received in "club parking" bay
DIR By: gettingbetter
Date: September 12, 2025, 3:47 am
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Good morning all,
I have received my NTO, and will be grateful for some direction
on what information to include in my appeal. This is my first
time taking a penalty this far so I will appreciate any insight.
Thank you.
Please let me know whether you will like to see a picture of the
NTO.
#Post#: 89606--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN received in "club parking" bay
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: September 12, 2025, 5:04 am
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Post the first page of the NTO - is it in your name and address?
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