DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Speeding and other criminal offences
*****************************************************
#Post#: 86457--------------------------------------------------
S172 & Late NIP
By: jlsmith Date: August 20, 2025, 5:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hello,
I am the RK of the car in question and the address on the V5
matches my address.
I received yesterday (19/08) by second class post a letter from
Durham Police (letter dated 14/08) purporting to be a reminder
to respond to a S172 notice. This notice is claimed to have been
sent on 24/07 in relation to a speeding offence dated 19/07.The
letter states I must respond to the S172 within 7 days of the
date of the covering letter (ie by 14+7 = 21/08) which is
tomorrow.
The letter also includes a NIP 'should you have mislaid the
original notice'. The NIP is dated 14/08.
I did not receive any previous correspondence relating to this
previously in any form whatsoever. I am an accountant and have
an orderly method of collecting, reviewing, addressing and
filing all mail that comes to my home address as a reasonable
amount of mail is business-related. I can be quite categorical
that this is the first correspondence I've received on this.
I have also logged in today and viewed pictures of the 'ping'
and a calibration certificate of the unit in question (cert.
dated 11 Dec 2024). I can provide copies of these if deemed
necessary.
The alleged speed is 80mph on a 70mph-limited dual carriageway.
I have received 2 photos, one showing 80mph and the second taken
two seconds later showing 79mph.
The 14 day period to issue a NIP has clearly been missed, but
how might I prove not having received something?. I'd appreciate
some advice as to how best to proceed. I presume in any case I
must respond to the S172. Is it worth writing back by return to
state the above facts and see what response is given?
Many thanks
#Post#: 86461--------------------------------------------------
Re: S172 & Late NIP
By: JustLoveCars Date: August 20, 2025, 5:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=jlsmith link=topic=7740.msg86457#msg86457
date=1755685528]
The 14 day period to issue a NIP has clearly been missed, but
how might I prove not having received something?.
[/quote]
Quite. It's likely to be easier to show a genuinely late NIP as
opposed to one 'lost in the post'. (David Beckham successfully
did this a while back)
[quote author=jlsmith link=topic=7740.msg86457#msg86457
date=1755685528]
I'd appreciate some advice as to how best to proceed. I presume
in any case I must respond to the S172.
[/quote]
Yes, the s172 request is not subject to the 14 days.
[quote author=jlsmith link=topic=7740.msg86457#msg86457
date=1755685528]
Is it worth writing back by return to state the above facts and
see what response is given?
[/quote]
The likely response is that you'd have to take the matter to
court to challenge. They will be able to state the NIP entered
the postal system and they rely on a presumption of service you
would have to rebut.
[quote author=jlsmith link=topic=7740.msg86457#msg86457
date=1755685528]
I received yesterday (19/08) by second class post...
...calibration certificate of the unit in question (cert. dated
11 Dec 2024).
...one showing 80mph and the second taken two seconds later
showing 79mph.
[/quote]
Not sure any of this is relevant/out of order?
#Post#: 86481--------------------------------------------------
Re: S172 & Late NIP
By: jlsmith Date: August 20, 2025, 7:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the responses. Are there any / many cases of
successful rebuttal of presumption on record?
#Post#: 86506--------------------------------------------------
Re: S172 & Late NIP
By: Reentrant Date: August 20, 2025, 9:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
David Beckham is possibly the best known case. But there was
conclusive proof the NIP arrived late.
#Post#: 86516--------------------------------------------------
Re: S172 & Late NIP
By: NewJudge Date: August 20, 2025, 9:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]Are there any / many cases of successful rebuttal of
presumption on record?[/quote]
None would be on record because they are heard in Magistrates'
Courts, which are not "courts of record".
Anecdotally very few succeed.
The pragmatic approach would be to respond to the s172 request
and accept the offer of a course which will almost certainly be
made (provided you have not done one in the last three years).
If you defend the speeding charge on the basis that no NIP was
served within 14 days, the cost of failure is high. You will pay
a fine of half a week's net income, a "victim surcharge" of 40%
of the fine, and prosecution costs which will be in the region
of [s]£90[/s] £650.
You can mention the late NIP to the police but they will
certainly not simply take your word for it. They will have the
matter heard in court. You must therefore be careful in your
response that you do not give them the impression that you will
not accept an out-of-court disposal. If they get that notion
they may not make such an offer.
#Post#: 86519--------------------------------------------------
Re: S172 & Late NIP
By: JustLoveCars Date: August 20, 2025, 10:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=NewJudge link=topic=7740.msg86516#msg86516
date=1755701498]
...and prosecution costs which will be in the region of £90.
[/quote]
The CPS list a contested trial as £650.
#Post#: 86522--------------------------------------------------
Re: S172 & Late NIP
By: jlsmith Date: August 20, 2025, 10:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for this. First stage is that I have submitted the S170
with an unequivocal answer but have also highlighted the late
NIP and see what their next step is.
#Post#: 86527--------------------------------------------------
Re: S172 & Late NIP
By: NewJudge Date: August 20, 2025, 11:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]"The CPS list a contested trial as £650."[/quote]
Yes, thanks JLC. "Senior Moment". :'(
#Post#: 86543--------------------------------------------------
Re: S172 & Late NIP
By: Southpaw82 Date: August 20, 2025, 12:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
If the OP (or driver, if different) wants to contest the case
then they will have to rebut the presumption of service to civil
standard (i.e. more likely than not). The fact that the OP has a
rigorous system for logging post would be a good start.
*****************************************************