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#Post#: 86187--------------------------------------------------
The Bus lane Trap in Portsmouth City Centre
By: Play by the rules Date: August 18, 2025, 11:35 am
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Hi, there. There is a Bus Lane Trap in Portsmouth City Centre
which is in the national top ten for raking it in I believe. As
a driver approaches a smallish roundabout there are signs saying
no left turn except things like buses etc (it passes the shops).
No signage states that you cannot turn right at this roundabout,
or that any restrictions apply once entering the road. After
you have turned right (which is legal) you catch from the corner
of your eye that somewhere a bus lane will start, but nothing to
suggest that you cannot reach the next set of traffic lights in
100m time. You are now in a section of road which has no exit
due to there being a bus lane that is about to start.
What appears to be the parallel running lane is in fact oncoming
traffic, except that at midnight with no vehicles around you
would not know that. At night, with no traffic, it presents as
if you should move to the right to avoid the bus lane, except
you are then driving down the wrong side of the road.
I was driving a large long wheelbase van. I could have done a 7
point turn on a main road, (is that allowed) if I'd known that
the RHS lane was in fact for oncoming traffic and it was
impossible to continue going forward. The only legally permitted
option was to reverse up a main road, reverse around the
roundabout, and then drive forwards again. As a driver you don’t
expect to be expected to do that.
The sign (which I went to look for a fortnight later) which does
not appear in the Highway Code, suggest that the driver should
move into the RHS of the road and prepare to turn right at the
next junction which is traffic light controlled and is barely a
50m or so in front.
The "Trap" is on Bishop Crispin way. The Google Street view link
is below. (if the link doesn't work, go to the Portsmouth
Travelodge on Edinburgh Rd) and take a “virtual” drive along
Bishop Crispin Road and imagine you are doing so at night.
Why was I here? I was at the mini roundabout, going to the
Travelodge; it was midnight with no traffic about. if the
council genuinely wanted to stop people driving along that road,
they could put up a "no entry except buses" sign at the entrance
to the road. The problem for council with doing that is that
clear signage would not rake in millions of pounds in penalties.
if it could be shown that this trap was illegal (beside being
dangerous) then there would be 100'000's of people due a refund.
It would dwarf the recent victory as per the current newspaper
items.
#Post#: 86189--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Bus lane Trap in Portsmouth City Centre
By: John U.K. Date: August 18, 2025, 11:49 am
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If you have a PCN, please to have a read of
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
and post up here all sides of the PCN, redacting only yr name &
address - leave all else in) and a GSV link to the location.
#Post#: 86202--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Bus lane Trap in Portsmouth City Centre
By: Play by the rules Date: August 18, 2025, 12:29 pm
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I queried the notice (and I'm good at doing that type of thing).
There is no point appealing as you will lose since the councils
grandma reviews all appeals, and then you need to pay the full
ticket price. For the £35, I paid it, but I would ask for it
back via the small claims court. There would be no time
pressures going that way. A smart lawyer could even get his
fees of the council by winning a class action.
I did come a cross a barrister who said that sometimes he fought
these ridiculaous PCN's pro-bono and then he'd get a donation
sent to a charity, but he was busy with work. He implied that
proving the sign was illegal would be the way to go, and I'm
sure that it was.
#Post#: 86203--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Bus lane Trap in Portsmouth City Centre
By: John U.K. Date: August 18, 2025, 12:39 pm
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I'll move this to the Flame Pit. I'm sure some members will have
ideas for you. Please post the promised GSV link.
Local press can be helpful in such cases, and also the ward
councillors for the ward in which this is situated, and, if you
live in Portsmouth, yr own ward councillors.
#Post#: 86245--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Bus lane Trap in Portsmouth City Centre
By: 666 Date: August 19, 2025, 1:47 am
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[quote author=Play by the rules
link=topic=7718.msg86187#msg86187 date=1755534945]
I was driving a large long wheelbase van. I could have done a 7
point turn on a main road, (is that allowed) if I'd known that
the RHS lane was in fact for oncoming traffic and it was
impossible to continue going forward. The only legally permitted
option was to reverse up a main road, reverse around the
roundabout, and then drive forwards again. As a driver you don’t
expect to be expected to do that.
[/quote]
There is nothing inherently illegal in a 7-point turn, so
reversing was not the only option, and was itself arguably
illegal.
AFAIK reversing around a roundabout is not a specific offence -
probably because no-one ever imagined it happening. But it would
almost certainly be regarded as careless or even dangerous
driving.
#Post#: 86258--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Bus lane Trap in Portsmouth City Centre
By: Play by the rules Date: August 19, 2025, 4:21 am
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The being made though is that no one expects to enter a road
that has no way out. A bus lane implies that there are two
possible lanes available and motorists should use the outer lane
while buses will use the inner lane. In effect the road was a
"one way only" road, achived by making the only possible exit a
bus lane. if that's what the town planner wanted, they should
use the correct signage, and it should be sign posted as such at
the entrance to the road not half way down it when reversing has
become the only option.
Most of the roads in the area were urban dual carriageway and
some were one way, so in these places it is not unusual for the
"correct lane" to be on the "wrong side of the road". I can't
recall ever seing a "mandatory U turn required" sign before. The
signage, such as it was, suggested that at the next junction you
were going to be required to do a hard right turn. In fact the
sign meant do a "U" turn now! (and this was a busy road when I
lived here 30 years ago) It is very easy to return to a scene on
foot to examine the signs but when driving this section, looking
for a car park entrance (which wasn't here) the barely visible
signs were incoherent and not consistent with good driving
practice.
#Post#: 86328--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Bus lane Trap in Portsmouth City Centre
By: The Slithy Tove Date: August 19, 2025, 11:33 am
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Doing the GSV "tour" as suggested, I note the following:
* On entering Bishop Crispin Way , the May 2015 images show a No
Through Road sign. This appears to have gone away in the
following 10 years.
* Go down the road a bit, then turn round to look back at the
roundabout, and there's a sign (it's now March 2022!) showing
the bus only restriction "ahead" and that other traffic should
execute a U-turn. This sign appears to be facing in completely
the wrong direction. As seen, it makes no sense as you are
approaching the roundabout and it's on the right hand side of
the road. It should surely be facing the other way. What was the
state of this sign at the time? It it's been "fixed", which your
description suggests is the case, then it would be argued you
had sufficient warning, i.e. the "mandatory U turn required"
sign you were asking for.
I'm sure there's a good reason councils seem to use the blue
"buses only" signs rather than the more traditional "No Entry"
or "No Through Road" signs with a plate showing "except for
buses". It's probably been explained on this (or a previous)
forum before, but surely the latter would be much clearer.
#Post#: 86368--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Bus lane Trap in Portsmouth City Centre
By: Play by the rules Date: August 19, 2025, 2:32 pm
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Quoting
:) Go down the road a bit, then turn round to look back at the
roundabout, and there's a sign (it's now March 2022!) showing
the bus only restriction "ahead" and that other traffic should
execute a U-turn. This sign appears to be facing in completely
the wrong direction. As seen, it makes no sense :)
That other sign was correct. At said roundabout you are not
allowed to access Edinburgh Road, and those signs were notifying
that. (in your trip via GSV you would not have appreciated that
the sign faced the roundabout because it was on the opposite
exit). I also think that its reasonable to expect the Highway
to be consisent ........ except of course it not prohibited to
enter Bishop Crispin Way as long as you know the only way out
will be by reversing (or doing an extremely difficult "U" turn)
since driving straight is illegal. Before reaching the "trap"
you pass a pedestrian island with a sign telling you to pass on
the LHS, so that "u" turn, which would end up as a 4 or 5 point
turn, is not properly explained and it involves spinning around
other this bollard/pedestrian refuge placed in the middle of the
road.
Maybe I should hire a small lorry and go back and deliberately
get stuck at the "u" sign with a bus behind me, so he has to
reverse back to let me reverse back. :D :D :D :D :D 8) 8)
??? ??? :P :) ..... or for even more fun I'll take a caravan
there. That will grid lock the city centre for sure.
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