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#Post#: 86227--------------------------------------------------
Re: 50mph in 30 zone but police officer thinks there was only 2
entrances to zone, there is 3
By: Mark6 Date: August 18, 2025, 4:40 pm
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This image is coming into the village from the other direction
I'm not 100% sure you could call this 'clearly signed' given the
foliage present
HTML https://ibb.co/B5Y51pQm
#Post#: 86228--------------------------------------------------
Re: 50mph in 30 zone but police officer thinks there was only 2
entrances to zone, there is 3
By: NewJudge Date: August 18, 2025, 4:47 pm
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I've followed the GSV images and the village is clearly signed
with '30' terminal signs at each end. There is no streetlighting
so '30' repeaters would normally be provided and I don't see any
(though they are not, IIRC, mandatory).
The issue is whether the "byway" requires terminal signs and I
don't know whether it does or not. Obviously something like a
long private driveway wouldn't.
If it does I think you have a defence.
#Post#: 86229--------------------------------------------------
Re: 50mph in 30 zone but police officer thinks there was only 2
entrances to zone, there is 3
By: Mark6 Date: August 18, 2025, 5:06 pm
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Thank you for the help so far
On this basis, with me pleading not guilty, due to no signage on
BYWAY entrance, and no street lights, making me assume national
speed limit
Am I likely to be fined more for wasting a judges time?
Or could this potentially play in my favour by being able to
explain to the judge the confusion, and why I pleaded not
guilty?
#Post#: 86231--------------------------------------------------
Re: 50mph in 30 zone but police officer thinks there was only 2
entrances to zone, there is 3
By: Mark6 Date: August 18, 2025, 5:21 pm
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HTML https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/Byway_Open_to_All_Traffic
According to this, a BOAT BYWAY has all the legal standing as an
'All purpose road' and they can have TRO's
#Post#: 86252--------------------------------------------------
Re: 50mph in 30 zone but police officer thinks there was only 2
entrances to zone, there is 3
By: NewJudge Date: August 19, 2025, 3:08 am
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Since this stretch has no streetlighting a TRO would be required
to make it a 30mph limit. Have you examined that to see whether
it mentions the byway? If the byway was a normal road I imagine
any TRO would mention where on it the 30mph limit begins (e.g.
“50 metres from the junction with the Council Houses Road”).
That doesn't help with the lack of signage, but if the byway
isn't mentioned it will strengthen your argument that it has
been "forgotten" when imposing the limit.
[quote]Am I likely to be fined more for wasting a judges
time?[/quote]
It's more than likely that you will have to convince a Bench of
three "lay" magistrates rather than a judge.
The guideline fine for the offence is one week’s net income. A
guilty plea would see that reduced by a third, so obviously if
you are found guilty following a trial you will lose that
discount. As well as that, a guilty plea would see prosecution
costs of around £90, but conviction following a trial will see
that increase to around £650. You will also pay a “victim
surcharge” of 40% of any fine imposed.
#Post#: 86255--------------------------------------------------
Re: 50mph in 30 zone but police officer thinks there was only 2
entrances to zone, there is 3
By: disgruntchelt Date: August 19, 2025, 3:31 am
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The issue you have is that you passed a repeater before you were
snapped.
Another issue is that will a judge believe you didn’t know the
local area but knew it well enough to travel down what appears
to be a farm track which conveniently just happens not to have a
terminal sign on it?
If you do take it to court refer to the by way by its name
rather than referring to it as a byway
#Post#: 86259--------------------------------------------------
Re: 50mph in 30 zone but police officer thinks there was only 2
entrances to zone, there is 3
By: Southpaw82 Date: August 19, 2025, 4:26 am
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Is there any reason you keep writing “BYWAY” all in caps? It
makes my teeth itch.
Do some googling for the “envelope defence” - IIRC, the defence
doesn’t work if there is an “entrance” that isn’t properly
signed but that wasn’t the one you used. It stands to reason
that if you did use an “unsigned” entrance then the defence
ought to be available to you.
#Post#: 86386--------------------------------------------------
Re: 50mph in 30 zone but police officer thinks there was only 2
entrances to zone, there is 3
By: Mark6 Date: August 19, 2025, 3:25 pm
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Here is Lincolnshire Council TRO map of the BYWAY joining the
highway
HTML https://ibb.co/vvhqGmTn
Linwood village clearly shows the 30mph limit
BYWAY Willingham lane is blank, so assume no TRO
Therefore, as there is no street lighting, doesn't the law say
national speed limit of 60mph unless signs state otherwise?
This link is the live TRO map for Lincolnshire -
HTML https://lincolnshire.statmap.co.uk/tro/map.html?login=tro_public
Market Rasen is at approx 20 degree up right when scrolling out
from Lincoln
Again thanks for the help
#Post#: 86392--------------------------------------------------
Re: 50mph in 30 zone but police officer thinks there was only 2
entrances to zone, there is 3
By: Mark6 Date: August 19, 2025, 3:49 pm
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[quote author=Southpaw82 link=topic=7708.msg86259#msg86259
date=1755595610]
Is there any reason you keep writing “BYWAY” all in caps? It
makes my teeth itch.
Do some googling for the “envelope defence” - IIRC, the defence
doesn’t work if there is an “entrance” that isn’t properly
signed but that wasn’t the one you used. It stands to reason
that if you did use an “unsigned” entrance then the defence
ought to be available to you.
[/quote]
Apologies, It's just a habit as the sites always seem to mention
byways in capitals
#Post#: 86393--------------------------------------------------
Re: 50mph in 30 zone but police officer thinks there was only 2
entrances to zone, there is 3
By: Mark6 Date: August 19, 2025, 3:52 pm
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And thank you Southpaw82 for the 'envelope defence' advice,
going to google it now
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