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#Post#: 84333--------------------------------------------------
Re: Baliff (newlyn) took my car months after i already paid the
debt, please help
DIR By: Bailiff Advice
Date: August 5, 2025, 5:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: abc link ---
>
>
> Moreover, the failure to notify you of the vehicle’s location
violates the statutory obligation under paragraph 61(4) of
Schedule 12 to keep controlled goods safe and make them
accessible to the debtor
--- End Quote ---
Not correct I'm afraid.
Paragraph 61 only applies in cases where goods have been taken
control but have not been removed by the enforcement agent. What
is clear from the OP's post is that his vehicle has been
removed.
#Post#: 84346--------------------------------------------------
Re: Baliff (newlyn) took my car months after i already paid the
debt, please help
DIR By: abc
Date: August 6, 2025, 2:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
You have every reason to challenge what has occurred, especially
given that you paid the debt in full in February and were later
told it was reversed without your knowledge. Even if enforcement
were lawfully resumed, which remains highly questionable, there
are strict procedures that must be followed, including giving
you clear notice and not imposing additional fees unless
properly justified under the regulations.
Storage fees, for example, cannot simply be added without proof.
Under the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014,
enforcement agents may only charge fees that are either fixed or
reflect actual costs incurred. If storage is claimed, they must
be able to show that they paid for it and that the amount is
reasonable. This is not a discretionary fee and cannot be
inflated or imposed without proper documentation.
As your next step, you may wish to file an urgent application to
the County Court to stop the auction and seek the return of your
vehicle. You can explain that the debt was previously paid, no
valid notice was given, and the fees now demanded are not
supported by law. If you are considering paying the fee under
protest to recover your car, make sure you clearly record that
the payment is made under objection so that you can later pursue
a refund through the appropriate legal process.
If you are also submitting PE2 and PE3 forms to challenge the
original PCN, and they are accepted, then yes, if the court
cancels the enforcement order, you may be eligible for a refund
of enforcement fees already paid. Just be aware that the outcome
depends on the tribunal accepting your reasons for filing late.
Stay calm, keep copies of all evidence, and ensure everything
you submit to the court or to the Traffic Enforcement Centre is
clear, complete, and supported by documentation. If you need
help preparing your court application or understanding the legal
position in more detail, seek individual advice as soon as
possible. Time is now very short before the auction date.
#Post#: 84348--------------------------------------------------
Re: Baliff (newlyn) took my car months after i already paid the
debt, please help
DIR By: abc
Date: August 6, 2025, 2:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Bailiff Advice link ---
>
> [quote author=freedom07 link=topic=7538.msg84291#msg84291
date=1754415415]
> I would like to contest to original PCN which I am doing a
PE2/PE3 form
> because i got the pcn whilst rushing to the hospital.
>
> If I'm successful in contesting this but it was after i paid
the baliffs to get my car back, do i get a full refund?
--- End Quote ---
Submitting an Out of Time Application needs careful wording. In
your initial post, you mention being away for months and to
confuse matters, you also mention that you got the PCN whilst
rushing to the hospital. Can you clarify the position. If you
had been away for months, would you be able to provide any
evidence with your application to back this up?
Currently, Out of Time Witness Statements are taking approx 4
working days to be processed which means that, if submitted
tomorrow by email, bailiff enforcement would not be placed ' on
hold' until next Monday (possibly Tuesday).
Have you received official notification from Newlyn advising of
the date that your vehicle is due to be sold? If so, what date
has been provided?
In cases where an Out of Time Witness Statement is accepted, it
is the case that you should receive a full refund of any monies
paid.
[/quote]
The advice offered contains several inaccuracies and ought to be
corrected to avoid misleading an OP. It is correct that an Out
of Time witness statement must be carefully drafted and
supported by cogent evidence explaining the delay. Inconsistent
references to being away for months and receiving the penalty
charge notice whilst travelling to hospital must be clarified
and supported by contemporaneous material. The Civil Enforcement
of Road Traffic Contraventions (England) Representations and
Appeals Regulations 2022, together with Rule 23 of the Civil
Procedure Rules and associated TEC Practice Guidance, make clear
that an Out of Time application must demonstrate that the
failure to act within time was not due to a lack of diligence.
The suggestion that enforcement will be placed on hold four
working days after submission is incorrect. Enforcement
continues until the Traffic Enforcement Centre has formally
processed and acknowledged the application. This is usually done
within one to two working days following email submission. Once
TEC confirms receipt, it issues a hold instruction to the
enforcement agent, at which point enforcement must cease
pursuant to Regulation 4 of the Taking Control of Goods
Regulations 2013.
If the applicant has received formal notice of an impending
sale, that is of immediate concern. Under paragraph 15 of
Schedule 12 to the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007,
no sale may take place without seven clear days' notice. The
presence of such notice, or its absence, will materially affect
any interim relief application and may support an urgent stay or
injunction if enforcement is otherwise imminent and unlawful.
Finally, the assertion that acceptance of an Out of Time witness
statement automatically results in a full refund of monies paid
is incorrect. Although the warrant is retrospectively
invalidated, the local authority is not under an automatic
statutory obligation to repay sums received. However, there is a
compelling basis to seek restitution, since enforcement becomes
void ab initio. The correct approach is to demand reimbursement
on the basis that the money was paid under an unenforceable
instrument, invoking the general principles of unjust enrichment
and, where necessary, relying on authorities such as Auton v
London Borough of Barking and Dagenham (2010, unreported) and
the reasoning in R (Kay) v Lambeth LBC [2006] UKHL 10 where acts
taken under invalid authority must be treated as nullities.
The applicant should be advised to proceed with the Out of Time
application without delay, ensure the explanation is consistent
and substantiated, and if necessary seek urgent injunctive
relief to prevent the disposal of goods in breach of paragraph
15. Any subsequent request for a refund should be framed on
public law grounds or brought as a separate claim in
restitution.
#Post#: 84349--------------------------------------------------
Re: Baliff (newlyn) took my car months after i already paid the
debt, please help
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: August 6, 2025, 2:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Let's remember that currently the OP has not suffered any direct
financial loss (because their payment was refunded, or so we're
told) and references to reimbursement and restitution are
premature.
OP, if you cannot post the key paperwork here, as described,
then I don't see how the forum can assist.
#Post#: 84558--------------------------------------------------
Re: Baliff (newlyn) took my car months after i already paid the
debt, please help
DIR By: freedom07
Date: August 7, 2025, 5:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: disgruntchelt link ---
>
> Do you have a bank statement or credit card statement with the
money going out then coming back in?
>
--- End Quote ---
upon checking, yes i do
#Post#: 84561--------------------------------------------------
Re: Baliff (newlyn) took my car months after i already paid the
debt, please help
DIR By: freedom07
Date: August 7, 2025, 6:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> OP, in your first post you said:
>
> last year I drove into a street that needed a permit in London
and got a fine. I was away for months and came back with a
baliffs order.
>
> Now you're claiming: I would like to contest to original PCN
which i am doing a PE2/PE3 form because i got the pcn whilst
rushing to the hosptial.
>
> Your accounts are at variance.
>
> In any event, once your submission is registered bailiff
enforcement must cease. It can resume when TEC's decision is
issued.
>
> Once you've submitted your out of time application it cannot
be amended. It seems you've done this without input from
BailiffAdviceOnline.
>
> Good luck.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hello, thank you for your reply,
im not sure i understand, are you saying as soon as PE2/PE3 is
submitted they stop all enforcement? do they not have to look at
the forms first? even when they already have my vehicle?
my concern is if 1. if i submit it they wont look at it and
pause enforcement for a while and by that time my vehicle is
sold off
2. i need a county court witness for PE2/3 to be submitted,
which i cant get instantly, i have to get a schedule for this in
my local country court so that would be after my vehicle is
already auctioned
I only have around 4 days before they auction my vehicle
#Post#: 84564--------------------------------------------------
Re: Baliff (newlyn) took my car months after i already paid the
debt, please help
DIR By: freedom07
Date: August 7, 2025, 6:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: abc link ---
>
> You have every reason to challenge what has occurred,
especially given that you paid the debt in full in February and
were later told it was reversed without your knowledge. Even if
enforcement were lawfully resumed, which remains highly
questionable, there are strict procedures that must be followed,
including giving you clear notice and not imposing additional
fees unless properly justified under the regulations.
>
> Storage fees, for example, cannot simply be added without
proof. Under the Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations
2014, enforcement agents may only charge fees that are either
fixed or reflect actual costs incurred. If storage is claimed,
they must be able to show that they paid for it and that the
amount is reasonable. This is not a discretionary fee and cannot
be inflated or imposed without proper documentation.
>
> As your next step, you may wish to file an urgent application
to the County Court to stop the auction and seek the return of
your vehicle. You can explain that the debt was previously paid,
no valid notice was given, and the fees now demanded are not
supported by law. If you are considering paying the fee under
protest to recover your car, make sure you clearly record that
the payment is made under objection so that you can later pursue
a refund through the appropriate legal process.
>
> If you are also submitting PE2 and PE3 forms to challenge the
original PCN, and they are accepted, then yes, if the court
cancels the enforcement order, you may be eligible for a refund
of enforcement fees already paid. Just be aware that the outcome
depends on the tribunal accepting your reasons for filing late.
>
> Stay calm, keep copies of all evidence, and ensure everything
you submit to the court or to the Traffic Enforcement Centre is
clear, complete, and supported by documentation. If you need
help preparing your court application or understanding the legal
position in more detail, seek individual advice as soon as
possible. Time is now very short before the auction date.
>
--- End Quote ---
I really appreciate everyone's help on this and will keep
everyone informed of what happens in the coming weeks
i have a couple of questions
1. how do i file an urgent application to the county court to
stop the auction, i live in barnet london
and how long do they take to act?
2. i was considering just paying the fee for now and contesting
it with the pe2/3 and then contesting it with the council if
successful with the pe2/3
you reassured me by saying that everything i paid will be
refunded if im successful in both
i just have a question
when i pay/ pick up the vehicle, i was told online that i will
have to admit liability and waive my right to contest later, and
if i dont then they wont give my vehicle back, so what do i do
in that situaiton?
#Post#: 84567--------------------------------------------------
Re: Baliff (newlyn) took my car months after i already paid the
debt, please help
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: August 7, 2025, 6:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
On what grounds are you proposing to submit a Statutory
Declaration?
And what reasons are you going to put on the associated Out of
Time application? You have to explain why you are late
submitting your SD and why you should be granted an extension of
time to submit? The merits or otherwise of the original
contravention are irrelevant to this.
A copy of your SD & OOT will go to the Enforcement Authority who
can and likely will object to your OOT.
I suggest that seek help from Bailiff Advice Online
HTML https://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/
on how to complete the forms.
You can get the forms witnessed at a local solicitor. They'll
likely charge a fee for the service, but you should be able to
get it done quickly, even same day.
Email the completed forms to the Traffic Enforcement Centre
(TEC) at Northampton County Court. The email address is on the
forms. You should get an acknowledgement email within minutes.
That proves you sent them something. It might be 4 or 5 days
later before they register your OOT application and inform the
Enforcement Authority who will have 14(?) days to object.
At that point it will be scheduled to a court officer for
examination and the officer will decide whether your OOT should
be accepted or rejected. This might take a further 2-4 weeks for
a decision.
I'm not sure that they can force you to waive your rights to
contest the matter. I believe that if you pay-up then they have
to return the car. BAO will advise on that. Strictly speaking
paying the PCN closes the case. But there is time no limit for
filing an OOT application (with an SD) which if accepted would
revoke the bailiff's warrant and cancels the Charge Certificate.
This effectively resets the case.
And be aware that the Council (Enforcement Authority) are
supposed to suspend / freeze bailiff enforcement once they are
aware that an OOT and SD have been filed but not yet processed.
PS.
PM member @mrmustard. He's the guru on Barnet PCNs.
#Post#: 84581--------------------------------------------------
Re: Baliff (newlyn) took my car months after i already paid the
debt, please help
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: August 7, 2025, 7:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The OP has not posted any paperwork, not even the bailiff
notice.
#Post#: 84589--------------------------------------------------
Re: Baliff (newlyn) took my car months after i already paid the
debt, please help
DIR By: freedom07
Date: August 7, 2025, 8:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi,here are the documents, i have just taken out some sensitive
details
one of them is from feburary after i paid the debt, newlyn sent
me the balance which is £0
the other 2 is the only thing i received months after paying.
that is the 2 sided letter saying the new amount i owe (its a
lot more now due to storage fees) and that they took my car.
please note that the case number is exactly the same for both
documents
currently im trying to file an urgent notice to the county court
to stop the sale of the vehicle and return it to me, but i dont
know how to do that
i googled my local county court and called them but i keep being
bounced from one operator to another (they say that ive come to
the wrong depeartment for my type of case)
i dont know to file such a thing or how long it takes to do
before they act and stop the baliffs
can anyone please advise me
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