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#Post#: 84073--------------------------------------------------
NIP for 2x offences, speeding and failure of identification.
By: Beeboo Date: August 4, 2025, 11:30 am
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Good afternoon,
I would like to request help with the NIP I have received. After
getting over the initial shock I can summarise where I'm up to
below.
2/8 NIP received stating the following charges:
Offence 1: 31.3.25 failed to give info re the identification of
a driver of a vehicle.
Offence 2: 24/2/25 going 25mph in a 20 zone (caught by mobile
camera).
Today 4/8 I called the number on the letter and they advised me
to plead guilty to the speeding charge and not guilty to offence
1 which contradicts the advice I read on the read this first
page.
The first I had heard about any of this was a few days ago as I
didn't receive the initial request for details. I am dealing
with West Yorkshire Police and was surprised to find there are
no reminder letters as it's not the first time I personally have
had things lost in the post and I'm sure it won't be the last.
I'm not sure if it would be relevant to defend my case but I do
have evidence on my phone of at least three times that things
have been misdelivered to a street a few streets away with a
similar sounding name.
My VC5 is up to date so can only assume the initial notice was
lost as I have received other reminders through from the DVLA
such as vehicle tax.
The advice I have seen here is to plead not guilty to both
charges and then try to negotiate to accept just the speeding
fine. I have never had to go to court for anything before so I'm
just wondering if this is still the nest route to go down or if
I should plead guilty to the speeding and not guilty to the not
giving details as I genuinely didn't get the letter. Honestly,
I'm so upset because why would I want to go through all of this
and get points on my clean license when I could have just done a
speed awareness course had I received the initial documents.
If I do the guilty to one and not guilty to the other are they
likely to want to see me in court and will I then likely be
liable for a bunch of court costs on top of the fine? It seems
unjust when I really didn't get the letter if I'm going to have
to fork out £100s+++ due to an administrative error I had no
control over.
Trying to keep things in perspective and not spiral as I have a
roof over my head and enough to eat so doing better than most of
the world, I suppose much worse things happen to people than
extra court costs :(
#Post#: 84076--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP for 2x offences, speeding and failure of identification.
By: NewJudge Date: August 4, 2025, 11:48 am
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[quote]I called the number on the letter and they advised me to
plead guilty to the speeding charge and not guilty to offence
1[/quote]
No don't do that.
It might work but it might not. The speeding charge has no legs
unless you plead guilty to it. That is your "leverage" if you do
what is usually advised on here. If you plead guilty to speeding
(without ensuring the FtP charge will be dropped) and the police
decide to continue with the FtP charge you may have difficulty
defending it and will end up convicted of both.
Of course if you want to you can simply plead not guilty to
both. The speeding charge will be discontinued (they have no
evidence you were driving). But it means you will have to
convince the court that the original request for driver's
details was not received. It is not an easy task (if it was
everybody would do it) and the cost of failure is high. As well
as a hefty fine and prosecution costs you will receive six
points and an endorsement which will see a considerable increase
in your premiums for up to five years. It is an endorsement that
really needs avoiding if possible.
Before the pandemic it was necessary to attend court to
undertake this arrangement and speak to the prosecutor (the
agreement of the prosecutor is required as the court cannot
accept it without that agreement). However, during the pandemic
most courts accepted a written request to do the deal. Local
police prosecutors made an agreement with their courts that the
magistrates’ legal advisors could accept the deal. In some areas
this arrangement has carried on, so you may have to attend court
or you may not.
I'm assuming that you were the driver at the time of the alleged
speeding offence?
#Post#: 84081--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP for 2x offences, speeding and failure of identification.
By: Beeboo Date: August 4, 2025, 12:14 pm
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Thank you for the very comprehensive advice. I will proceed as
you advised. Yes I was the driver.
#Post#: 86865--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP for 2x offences, speeding and failure of identification.
By: Beeboo Date: August 23, 2025, 4:08 am
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Hi,
Following on from my case I took the advice of pleading not
guilty to both cases. I did NOT mention that I never received a
letter as I read on someone else's post that this would be a
defence to the speeding charge meaning that I would be
potentially on the hook for the more serious charge of not
responding.
Today on another professional healthcare forum I'm on I by
coincidence saw someone who is in a similar position to me and
who is under investigation for dishonesty by our professional
body!! I can't believe that an admin error could potentially now
be putting my career at risk!! I have done some research and
apparently if I'm convicted of the failure to respond then I
will be under investigation for fitness to practice. I am
seriously spiralling :'(
I'm trying to be rational and think that from what I've read
here that is unlikely to happen but now I'm threating that if I
get someone on a bad day and I'm convicted of both it's game
over for me. Last 15 years of my life and the rest of it down
the drain.
#Post#: 86866--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP for 2x offences, speeding and failure of identification.
By: andy_foster Date: August 23, 2025, 4:10 am
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Cool story bro
#Post#: 86884--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP for 2x offences, speeding and failure of identification.
By: NewJudge Date: August 23, 2025, 6:26 am
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Not that it's much help, but if I worked in a profession where
the outcome of a letter getting lost in the post could see me
dismissed, I might consider an alternative career. However,
that's by the way.
If you want to avoid a conviction for “Failing to Provide
Driver’s Details” (FtP) there are only two alternatives:
1. Negotiate the arrangement I have suggested.
2. Plead Not Guilty to the charge (without the arrangement).
Option 2 means offering a defence to the charge. All you have
is your testimony that the original notice was not received,
together with some evidence that a small number of other items
have failed to arrive in the post previously. You might succeed.
My feeling is that you will not.
If the prosecutor does not accept your offer under option 1
(which is highly unlikely) you will be in the same position as
you would be under option 2 – having to defend the FtP charge.
Whilst there is a chance that you may successfully defend the
FtP charge, I believe there is a far greater certainty that your
offer (to plead guilty to speeding if the FtP charge is dropped)
will be accepted.
The arrangement I have suggested is well known to all court
users – prosecutors, magistrates and their legal advisors. It is
negotiated all the time. Prosecutors understand that
administrative issues such as yours occur and generally they
have no wish to secure convictions for more serious offences
provided they are satisfied that nobody is trying to secure an
unjust outcome.
On this site and its now defunct predecessor (“Pepipoo”) I
believe that there was only one known occasion when the
arrangement was not accepted. In that case the defendant was
less than polite to the prosecutor.
If I was asked to rate the chances of a successful outcome to
each of your two options I would say >99% for option one, whilst
I would say only 50% (at best) for option 2.
Have you heard back from the court yet following your response?
#Post#: 86898--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP for 2x offences, speeding and failure of identification.
By: Beeboo Date: August 23, 2025, 7:26 am
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[quote author=NewJudge link=topic=7531.msg86884#msg86884
date=1755948395]
Not that it's much help, but if I worked in a profession where
the outcome of a letter getting lost in the post could see me
dismissed, I might consider an alternative career. However,
that's by the way.
If you want to avoid a conviction for “Failing to Provide
Driver’s Details” (FtP) there are only two alternatives:
1. Negotiate the arrangement I have suggested.
2. Plead Not Guilty to the charge (without the arrangement).
Option 2 means offering a defence to the charge. All you have
is your testimony that the original notice was not received,
together with some evidence that a small number of other items
have failed to arrive in the post previously. You might succeed.
My feeling is that you will not.
If the prosecutor does not accept your offer under option 1
(which is highly unlikely) you will be in the same position as
you would be under option 2 – having to defend the FtP charge.
Whilst there is a chance that you may successfully defend the
FtP charge, I believe there is a far greater certainty that your
offer (to plead guilty to speeding if the FtP charge is dropped)
will be accepted.
The arrangement I have suggested is well known to all court
users – prosecutors, magistrates and their legal advisors. It is
negotiated all the time. Prosecutors understand that
administrative issues such as yours occur and generally they
have no wish to secure convictions for more serious offences
provided they are satisfied that nobody is trying to secure an
unjust outcome.
On this site and its now defunct predecessor (“Pepipoo”) I
believe that there was only one known occasion when the
arrangement was not accepted. In that case the defendant was
less than polite to the prosecutor.
If I was asked to rate the chances of a successful outcome to
each of your two options I would say >99% for option one, whilst
I would say only 50% (at best) for option 2.
Have you heard back from the court yet following your response?
[/quote]
Ok thank you. I might just be catastrophising. I've contacted
our mental health helpline and they calmed me down a lot. I
think the not responding charge might be looked dimly on if I
were convicted (as could be seen as dishonest) but I've followed
the advice here so I'm not going to think about things that are
unlikely to happen/haven't yet happened. The support line told
me to calm down as I'm not going to be struck off for going 25
in a 20 zone.
I haven't heard back yet but they said I should hear back within
28 days on the letter so if nothing has come through by then I
will ring and email the court to make sure it's not lost in the
post...again :-[
#Post#: 86909--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP for 2x offences, speeding and failure of identification.
By: Southpaw82 Date: August 23, 2025, 9:15 am
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I don’t see how any properly directed regulator could find that
not responding to a s 172 notice is dishonest (“conduct that the
ordinary man in the street would say was dishonest”), absent
some extraordinary factor pointing to dishonesty. Dishonesty is
not an element of the offence (unlike say theft or fraud).
#Post#: 86914--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP for 2x offences, speeding and failure of identification.
By: NewJudge Date: August 23, 2025, 9:54 am
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[quote]I don’t see how any properly directed regulator could
find that not responding to a s 172 notice is
dishonest..[/quote]
Especially if it wasn't received!
#Post#: 86915--------------------------------------------------
Re: NIP for 2x offences, speeding and failure of identification.
By: andy_foster Date: August 23, 2025, 10:05 am
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For the OP to be convicted of the s. 172 charge, the court would
have to find as fast that the notice was delivered, meaning that
on the balance of probabilities they didn't believe him.
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