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       #Post#: 83978--------------------------------------------------
       Waltham Forest - 12s  Parked in a residents or shared use
       parking place without permit
   DIR By: ipswichfan2
       Date: August 4, 2025, 3:35 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Hi all
       I have received 2x PCN from Waltham Forest council for parking
       in a permit holders only bay without a permit. Only problem is
       the bay in question does not have a sign on. Other bays on the
       same road do have a permit holder only sign on a lamppost or
       fence nearby.
       I have previously received a blue warning notice for parking in
       this bay with the amount on the pcn being £0.00
       I appealed the fine stating both of these reasons and have
       received the following response from the council, basically
       stating that because there is a general zone sign in the area
       that the  bays do not need to have individual permit holder only
       signs on them.
       My initial appeal:
       I am writing to formally challenge the issuance of PCN issued on
       14 June 2025 for my vehicle, registration WX17 XTA.
       The PCN states that I was parked in a permit holders-only bay;
       however, there were no visible signs in the vicinity clearly
       indicating that this area is restricted to permit holders. The
       absence of appropriate signage meant I could not reasonably have
       known that parking was restricted at this location.
       In addition, other vehicles parked in the same area at the same
       time received a blue PCN with a penalty of £0, whereas I
       received a yellow PCN with a fine of £160. This indicates
       inconsistent enforcement and raises serious concerns about
       fairness and clarity in the application of parking restrictions.
       As per the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions
       (TSRGD), motorists must be clearly informed of any restrictions
       through adequate signage. In this case, the lack of clear
       signage fails to meet this requirement, making the restriction
       unenforceable.
       I kindly request you review this matter and cancel the PCN on
       the grounds of:
       * Inadequate or missing signage at the location
       * Inconsistent enforcement across similarly parked vehicles
       * Lack of fair notice, making the restriction unclear
       Please find attached:
       * Photographs of the area showing the absence of signage
       * Photos of the blue PCNs issued to other vehicles
       I look forward to your response and a fair review of my case.
       Yours sincerely,

       Attached the rejected appeal letter from them below
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/DJle8vM.png
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/4OsJ4nJ.png
       I have now received a NTK which I am planning on appealing as I
       feel this is unfair. Any advice welcomed!
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/YbIEcrc.jpeg
       Streetview link, arrow pointing to the bay in question:
  HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/jvd6Qh6FxKpLmXMTA
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/2LrLSIH.jpeg
       Thanks
       #Post#: 83982--------------------------------------------------
       Re: PCN from Waltham Forest despite no permit holder only sign 
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: August 4, 2025, 3:52 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Sorry, but you haven't told us enough, so please read this and
       update your thread accordingly : -
  HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
       #Post#: 83983--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Waltham Forest - 12s  Parked in a residents or shared use
       parking place without permit
   DIR By: ipswichfan2
       Date: August 4, 2025, 4:11 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Apologies, I've updated the post
       #Post#: 83986--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Waltham Forest - 12s  Parked in a residents or shared use
       parking place without permit
   DIR By: stamfordman
       Date: August 4, 2025, 4:28 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       They are talking nonsense as a CPZ entry sign controls single
       yellow lines and not parking bays. It's not a permit parking
       area.
       It seems the bay sign has been missing and there's no direct pic
       of a sign in the CEO's pics.
       Of course they could reinstate the sign at any time.
       Can you go take pictures of the bay. There is an adjoining bay.
       Looks like there may be a sign in the CEO pic below.
  HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/cKWNwBfn4fAyK5U18
  HTML https://i.ibb.co/8nNqxXfj/Screenshot-2025-08-04-at-10-20-01.png
  HTML https://i.ibb.co/BKQsbV8X/Screenshot-2025-08-04-at-10-19-51.png
  HTML https://i.ibb.co/fGNFQ9v8/Screenshot-2025-08-04-at-10-19-43.png
       ---------
  HTML https://i.ibb.co/mCL9tX8g/Screenshot-2025-08-04-at-10-25-27.png
  HTML https://i.ibb.co/PswZ7cG7/Screenshot-2025-08-04-at-10-25-20.png
       #Post#: 83990--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Waltham Forest - 12s  Parked in a residents or shared use
       parking place without permit
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: August 4, 2025, 4:41 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       OK, so they're talking complete tosh (as usual !).  The CPZ sign
       with times, controls only the single yellow lines in the zone.
       It does not control marked out parking bays; these need their
       own sign and as you can see on GSV for September 2024, the bay
       you parked in has a poles for a sign but the sign is missing.
       The next bay up (separated by a double-dashed mark at
       right-angles to the kerb has a sign, but it's vandalised.
       However, if we go back on GSV to the previous view, (April
       2022), the signs are there for both bays, the one you parked in
       being for SB permit holders only: -
  HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/QKn49H12p5CEAX2P6
       and the next bay being open to all for parking, but restricted
       Mon-Sat to 2 hours between 08.00am to 6.30pm, no return in 4
       hours : -
  HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/yrRaoxnA8AL1SCq56
       
       So with no sign they cannot wallop you for parking there at all.
       Not only that, they have failed in their duty under Regulation
       18 of The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England
       and Wales) Regulations 1996 (LATOR) to maintain the signs. In
       addition, the duties of their CEOs demand that they report
       missing signs and not serve PCNs to any cars parked therein.
       Once again, a typical London council greedy for money, but
       reluctant to spend the money on signs to advise motorists where
       they can park.
       #Post#: 83991--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Waltham Forest - 12s  Parked in a residents or shared use
       parking place without permit
   DIR By: ipswichfan2
       Date: August 4, 2025, 4:45 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thanks both for your advice!
       I've attached more photos of the bay in question that I took on
       the day as well as showing some cars receiving a blue warning
       notice (£0.00) and others receiving a yellow pcn (£160). Any
       advice on wording to put into my appeal?
       Thanks!!
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/eXrFMjl.jpeg
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/3lB82lG.jpeg
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/p4Lswv1.jpeg
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/nYX97As.jpeg
       #Post#: 83994--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Waltham Forest - 12s  Parked in a residents or shared use
       parking place without permit
   DIR By: stamfordman
       Date: August 4, 2025, 4:56 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       It's not an appeal but formal representations to the NTO.
       I expect you got a live PCN because you had a warning one but
       that's a red herring.
       Draft something and we'll tweak it. Keep it short and reference
       their wrong understanding of CPZs.
       #Post#: 84001--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Waltham Forest - 12s  Parked in a residents or shared use
       parking place without permit
   DIR By: ipswichfan2
       Date: August 4, 2025, 5:29 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I actually received 2 PCN's back to back for the same thing. I
       just noticed they mentioned the warning one on the appeal of the
       second letter. Attached here.
       Does this change my appeal at all?
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/cT1Uk0P.png
  HTML https://i.imgur.com/PGa4AQC.png
       Thanks!
       #Post#: 84009--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Waltham Forest - 12s  Parked in a residents or shared use
       parking place without permit
   DIR By: fraser.mitchell
       Date: August 4, 2025, 6:17 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Was the warning notice for the bay where you got this PCN ?
       #Post#: 84011--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Waltham Forest - 12s  Parked in a residents or shared use
       parking place without permit
   DIR By: ipswichfan2
       Date: August 4, 2025, 6:24 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Yes
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