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#Post#: 83526--------------------------------------------------
PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
DIR By: LondonTraveller84
Date: July 30, 2025, 5:46 pm
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Hi All,
First private PCN, may have to pay but thought I'd get your
advice before I do.
The primary schools parking is now managed by ' ' and there is a
free period (I believe 30 minutes) during school pickup and
drops, if its any longer you have to go into the main office and
register your VRN on the tablet. On the last day my wife ended
up staying a 37minutes and forgot to put the VRN in and has now
received the attached.
We are unable to call the school to ask if they can cancel as
the schools are now closed.
Is there any valid and genuine way to appeal this or not?
Regards
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 83538--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
DIR By: Dave65
Date: July 31, 2025, 4:35 am
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Is this a private school or council?
#Post#: 83558--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: July 31, 2025, 7:24 am
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IMO, assuming the car was parked within the signed perimeter of
the school, and therefore on school grounds, then IMO this is
not 'relevant land'.
Cranbrook Primary would appear to be a 'community school' owned
and maintained by the 'local authority':
HTML https://www.redbridge.gov.uk/schools/admission-arrangements-2024-25/
HTML https://www.gov.uk/types-of-school
3(1)In this Schedule “relevant land” means any land (including
land above or below ground level) other than—
(a)....
(b)a parking place which is provided or controlled by a traffic
authority;
control.
(2)In sub-paragraph (1)(b)—
.........;
“traffic authority” means each of the following—
(a)
(b)
;
(c)
;
(d)
..;
(e)
the council of a county, county borough, London borough or
district;
OP, don't go to the school, go to the council. Get written
confirmation as to the legal status of Cranbrook Primary School
and who owns the land and buildings.
#Post#: 83593--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
DIR By: b789
Date: July 31, 2025, 9:42 am
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Cranbrook Primary School is a community school under the control
of the London Borough of Redbridge. It is not an academy or
independent school, and therefore its land is under statutory
control.
Since Cranbrook Primary School is a local authority-maintained
community school, its land is not “relevant land” for the
purposes of PoFA. This means the operator cannot transfer
liability to the keeper under PoFA Schedule 4.
As CPM is relying on PoFA to pursue the keeper (rather than the
driver), their claim is legally flawed. You can challenge the
Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the basis that the land is not
relevant under PoFA, and therefore keeper liability does not
apply.
The Keeper must always refer to the driver in the third person.
No "I did this or that", only "the driver did this or that".
There is no legal obligation on the known keeper (the recipient
of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the identity of the
unknown driver and no inference or assumptions can be made.
The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which
means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot
transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the
known keeper.
I advise you send the following as your appeal from the Keeper:
--- Quote ---
> Subject: Formal Challenge to Parking Charge 70009722 – Invalid
Reliance on PoFA
>
> To Whom It May Concern,
>
> I am responding as the Registered Keeper (RK) to Parking
Charge Notice 70009722, issued as a Notice to Keeper (NtK) in
relation to an alleged contravention on 18 July 2025 at
Cranbrook Primary School, The Drive, Ilford, IG1 3PS.
>
> Your NtK explicitly invokes paragraph 9(2)(f) of Schedule 4 of
the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA), asserting a right to
recover the unpaid charge from the registered keeper. This
reliance is legally flawed.
>
> Cranbrook Primary School is a community school under the
control of the London Borough of Redbridge. As such, the land on
which the vehicle was parked is subject to statutory control and
does not meet the definition of “relevant land” under Schedule 4
of PoFA. Keeper liability under PoFA applies ONLY to land that
is privately owned and NOT subject to statutory control.
>
> Therefore, your attempt to transfer liability to the keeper is
invalid. You are required to cancel this charge immediately. Any
continued pursuit of this notice will be considered an attempt
to misrepresent legal rights and will be reported to the
relevant authorities, including the DVLA and the ICO, for breach
of data handling obligations.
>
> I require written confirmation that this charge has been
cancelled. No further correspondence will be entered into unless
you provide compelling evidence that the land in question is
relevant under PoFA—which, given the school's status, you
cannot.
>
> Yours faithfully,
>
> [Your Name]
--- End Quote ---
Just be aware that CPM and any other IPC member firm will reject
any appeal and the secondary appeal service, the IAS, is also
likely to do the same as they are nothing but a Kangaroo court.
However, you have to go through the motions.
It will also involve some useless debt recovery letters. Debt
collectors are powerless to actually do anything except to try
and persuade the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to pay
up out of ignorance and fear.
The most likely outcome of this will be an eventual county court
claim which will never reach a hearing as it would be either
struck out or discontinued. Unfortunately, the process is
prolonged and will take anything from 9 months to over a year to
conclude.
However, if you follow the advice you receive here, you will not
be paying a penny to CPM and you are likely to learn a lot about
your rights and how to defend them.
#Post#: 83594--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
DIR By: b789
Date: July 31, 2025, 9:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I have just submitted the following FoI request to
foi@redbridge.gov.uk
--- Quote ---
> Dear FOI Team,
>
> Under the Freedom of Information Act 2000, I request the
following information regarding parking enforcement at Cranbrook
Primary School, The Drive, Ilford, IG1 3PS:
>
> Has the London Borough of Redbridge, or any delegated
authority thereof, contracted UK Car Park Management (CPM) to
operate parking enforcement services at the above site?
>
> If so, please provide:
>
> [indent]• The name of the contracting party or authority.
> • The date the contract was initiated.
> • The scope and duration of the contract.
> • A copy of the contract or agreement (with any necessary
redactions).[/indent]
>
> If CPM was contracted by the school directly, please confirm
whether the school had delegated authority from the borough to
enter into such an agreement concerning land use and
enforcement.
>
> This request concerns the legitimacy of private enforcement
activity on land that appears to fall under local authority
control. Please treat this as a matter of public interest and
procedural accountability.
>
> I look forward to your response within the statutory 20
working days.
>
> Yours faithfully,
>
> B789
--- End Quote ---
This will establish who to make an official complaint to about
the fact that CPM are acting unlawfully by issuing PCNs claiming
Keeper liability under PoFA.
As CPM are clearly breaching the PPSCoP section 8.1.1(d) this
also warrants a formal complaint to the DVLA, if only to
establish a paper trail about their breach of the PPSCoP and
therefore the KADOE contract.
#Post#: 84123--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
DIR By: LondonTraveller84
Date: August 4, 2025, 5:51 pm
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Hey all,
Sorry for the late reply, forgot to turn on notification on
reply and just checked today.
I'm not sure of who owns what element as the block itself, has 3
different properties, School, Sports Club (Frenford) and Rocket
Padel, the latter two have their own car parks. The car park in
question is used by others at times also I beleive, with a
shared enterance drive through to get to each. While the school
is a council run school, not sure if the car park is or if its
part or some form of a private ownership - If it is private and
not council owned, then where does that leave us?
Am trying to get my head around the technical terms and also the
legal elements here and some what daunting as it seems to be a
different ball game to the parking PCNs i've had to deal with
and some what more daunting - so based on the posts from all, it
seems that the key is not to provide any info on the driver and
ignore any letters that come for good. - In which case i can
send the draft kindly provided by B789.
When would the last day be for me to respond within the 14 days
- tomorrow? always unsure if we include the date of the notice
or not as a day, or the 1st day is the day after.
Regards
#Post#: 84161--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
DIR By: b789
Date: August 5, 2025, 4:24 am
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What 14 days? Do you mean the 'mugs discount'? If you are
considering that, then we cannot help you. That "discount" is to
persuade the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree that they
Arte getting a bargain when, in fact, they never ordered
anything in the first place.
The PCN is simply a speculative invoice for an alleged breach of
contract by the driver. Why would you pay an invoice simply
because it offers a discount?
You owe me £50 for my advice. However, if you pay me within 14
days, I will only charge you £30. Bargain!
#Post#: 84165--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
DIR By: LondonTraveller84
Date: August 5, 2025, 4:37 am
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--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> What 14 days? Do you mean the 'mugs discount'?
>
--- End Quote ---
It's somethign I used to do and pay up, to avoid ending up with
a bigger fine! However recently used this forum for appealing
multiple Civil PCN's, having to give up the discount and go all
the way with advice from vetrans here! I learnt a lot and would
never pay a discount again, unless there is no chance of
winning..
The private PCNs seems like a different kettle of fish and all
new to me, you and others here are making it sound even more
simple then Civil ones, although you'll receive dozens of debt
letters and there will be no adjudication element lol - which
would make any one shiver lol
#Post#: 84173--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
DIR By: b789
Date: August 5, 2025, 4:58 am
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You owe me another £50 for each occurrence of the word "fine"
that you can evidence in any correspondence you have received
over this matter.
#Post#: 85044--------------------------------------------------
Re: PCN - School Car Park Over Stayed without Registering.
DIR By: LondonTraveller84
Date: August 10, 2025, 4:25 pm
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Done! submitted appeal using the template now I wait for their
reply.
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