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#Post#: 86402--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: LT
Date: August 19, 2025, 5:23 pm
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Thanks for your reply.
BANES have replied, but totally failed to address my request
for proof of first observation time.
As such I emailed them explaining their failure, twice.
As per my earlier post today, I have received the following
response from BANES, by email:
"The case will remain on hold until we are able to provide a
response. No further action is required on your part until you
have received our reply".
#Post#: 87697--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: LT
Date: August 29, 2025, 10:09 am
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I still haven't heard anymore about this since the 19th of
August, when I received an email stating that- "The case will
remain on hold until we are able to provide a response. No
further action is required on your part until you have received
our reply."
Which makes me think that either the council are just being slow
to deal with this, or they cannot substantiate the time they
claim my vehicle was first observed.
Just to clarify, my initial challenge was formally rejected in
writing, but it made no reference whatsoever to the reason why I
made the challenge.
#Post#: 87815--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: August 30, 2025, 12:21 pm
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How would we know, we haven't seen it?
Neither have we seen their email. If you simply sent your
observations on their response* through the same channels then
you might simply have an auto response and nothing's on hold
other than possibly any extended discount period mentioned in
their reply..which we haven't seen.
And we've not seen the PCN as far as I can see. Long on
narrative but short on objective facts.
*- they're not obliged to respond to a comment that you didn't
like their response. You can't simply extend this process at
will by writing to the council.
#Post#: 89102--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: LT
Date: September 9, 2025, 6:50 am
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^ Thank you for your response. Please see my fourth post on page
one, for the link to a copy of the PCN, which you have
previously commented on.
I had quoted (in bold) from the email I received. Below is the
full text for you, which I hope will you help you to give me
some further words of wisdom, which are much appreciated:
Aug 19, 2025, 3:57 PM
PCN: BN634564XX
Dear Mr XXXX,
Further to my telephone conversation this afternoon with Emma,
who was very helpful, I am writing to once again request the
documented proof of the first time my vehicle was observed.
I have repeatedly asked for this, but BANES have so far ignored
my request. I have received photographic evidence as proof of
the vehicle being parked at 10:43, which I do not dispute.
Surely, if I think the first observation time is incorrect, it
is not unreasonable to ask for evidence to substantiate your
claim?
Emma told me that the CEO recorded the tyre valve position on
two of the wheels of my vehicle at 8:04. If this is the case,
please let me have the documented proof. A screenshot from the
CEO's handheld device with the time and date will suffice.
As you have repeatedly ignored my reasonable request and taken 8
days to reply to my last email, I cannot help but feel that
BANES are deliberately withholding information with the intent
of increasing the charge to £50 and that I am being pressured to
take this to the Adjudicator.
I hope this matter can be resolved quickly and at no more
expense to myself and BANES. If your claim is proved to be
accurate, I will of course pay the discounted £25 penalty, but
if your delay in providing this evidence results in that right
being withdrawn, I shall use this correspondence in my defence
of not paying the full £50 penalty.
I look forward to your prompt response.
Yours sincerely
XXXXX XXXXXXX
Their reply:
Aug 19, 2025, 5:22 PM
Good Afternoon Mr. XXXXX
Thank you for your further email in relation to the above
Penalty Charge Notice.
Please be advised that I have added this correspondence, along
with your previous emails, to the case for further review and
consideration. The case will remain on hold until we are able to
provide a response. No further action is required on your part
until you have received our reply.
Kind Regards
XXXX XXXXX
I have yet to receive any further response, either by email or
post. Which doesn't concern me, as it simply makes BANES seem
even more incompetent.
#Post#: 89103--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: September 9, 2025, 6:55 am
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Who is the registered keeper?
You can demand all you like, they're not obliged to provide at
this stage and will in all likelihood simply progress
enforcement as per the regulatory timetable.
#Post#: 89105--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: LT
Date: September 9, 2025, 7:03 am
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I am the Registered Keeper of the vehicle.
The last email from BANES, on the 19th August 2025, clearly
states and I quote: "The case will remain on hold until we are
able to provide a response. No further action is required on
your part until you have received our reply."
To date I have not received any reply.
#Post#: 89109--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: September 9, 2025, 7:09 am
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They're not obliged by regs to put a response in writing,
effectively them issuing a NTO is their response.
But they might do, at their discretion within their enforcement
policies.
As you are the RK, you'll be able to wait until you receive
their response whatever form this might take.
The other deadline is that for serving a NTO..which is 6 months.
#Post#: 89176--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: LT
Date: September 9, 2025, 10:54 am
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^ Thanks.
IIRC, the NTO must be issued within six months from the date the
PCN was issued.
I'm at a loss as to why the Council cannot provide proof of the
time my vehicle was first observed. Maybe they can't, which if
it goes to adjudication will be their word against mine. I
accept that if this was the case, I would most likely lose on
the balance of probability. As the Council has repeatedly
ignored my request for proof, I think I would have a strong case
for paying the reduced amount of £25.
All of which is of course hypothetical at this strange.
I find it an interesting case though, as why should it be
accepted that the CEO is correct without evidence to prove it.
#Post#: 89181--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: September 9, 2025, 11:15 am
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As the Council has repeatedly ignored my request for proof, I
think I would have a strong case for paying the reduced amount
of £25.
With whom and at what stage?
The statutory discount period has lapsed. After this it's
discretionary and an appeal to the adjudicator is always against
the full penalty. The adjudicator has the option when rejecting
an appeal of recommending that the authority exercise
discretion, but it's their choice.
#Post#: 89204--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: LT
Date: September 9, 2025, 12:53 pm
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Yes, the statutory period has lapsed, but using their
discretion, BANES have, as they said in the email: "The case
will remain on hold until we are able to provide a response. No
further action is required on your part until you have received
our reply."
I objected on the grounds that I did not believe my vehicle was
first observed at the time stated on the PCN. To date BANES have
ignored this objection.
Had BANES met my objection, I would have paid the reduced
penalty and that would have been the end of the matter. If BANES
do not provide any evidence, which I find unlikely but you never
know, either before or at adjudication and the decision goes
against me then yes, I do believe I have a strong case for only
paying the reduced penalty amount of £25. As it would have only
been the fault of BANES in not meeting my clear objection that
this case would have ended in adjudication.
Whilst this is a civil matter, not a criminal offence and my
knowledge of the law is rusty, I can't believe that as BANES are
seeking a financial penalty then some fundamental rights would
still apply. Most probably under the UN’s Universal Declaration
of Human Rights. As the onus in on BANES to prove the offence
occurred. So far, I only have proof (date/time stamped
photographs) of the where the vehicle was parked at the time the
PCN was issued.
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