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#Post#: 83457--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: LT
Date: July 30, 2025, 7:50 am
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^ Thanks for all the replies, much appreciated.
I've challenged it and the response will interesting, unless the
CEO admits their error, it will come down to their word against
mine.
If that's the case, as has already been stated, on the balance
of probabilities an Adjudicator would almost certainly find
against me.
It's an odd scenario for sure and ordinarily I'd have had a
witness or witnesses to prove my whereabouts etc. Sods law!
#Post#: 83535--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: sx4
Date: July 31, 2025, 4:18 am
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The CEO can’t invent a start time for observations .
Once he inputs your VRM and valve positions into his or her hand
held computer it registers time so it can’t be changed to suit
him at a later time .
So the CEO cannot lie about start of observation
#Post#: 83548--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: July 31, 2025, 5:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
You came to the forum asking for help.
As early as Post #2 you were directed to read the forum
procedures which are there for a reason.
You have not posted what's required i.e. we're still missing the
VRM and back of the PCN.
You have submitted your own challenge.
Hey ho.
#Post#: 83966--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: theronstar
Date: August 3, 2025, 7:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hello,
I am a traffic warden in London, and have been watching this
forum with interest.
This is the first thread where I feel that I may have a unique
contribution to make.
I observe cars under contravention code 30F, and to be honest
with you, do not record the valve position, because it is too
cumbersome a task.
On my handheld, I record when I first 'observe' the vehicle. I
note the 'make' and 'colour' of the vehicle. I note the location
of the vehicle e.g. outside Tesco Express, then save the
observation.
In a shift, I can 'observe' 100 vehicles in the free parking
bays, but only issue a PCN to a couple of them.
It is incredibly arduous to record lots and lots of information
in an observation that I am most likely going to discard.
I can imagine that it sucks for the motorist, who may have
doubts about when I really did start observing their vehicle.
However, I tell them that falsifying an observation is a very
serious matter, so I would like to think that colleagues don't
resort to that.
I was trained to take photos after the contravention has
occurred and taught that it is incorrect to take photos of a
vehicle that - at that point - is not offending.
One caveat I will mention is that every local authority does
seem to have its own modus operandi. With that in mind, I
suspect that another warden could come along and say something
entirely different from me.
#Post#: 83968--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: August 4, 2025, 12:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
@
theronstar
Welcome to the forum! I'm sure yout contribuitions will be
welcome.
As this section is for live PCNs (until they are hopefully
cancelled!), This thread will be moved to the Flame Pit.
Apologies to all! I moved this thread in error and will return
it to Civil PCNs.
#Post#: 84235--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: LT
Date: August 5, 2025, 9:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> You came to the forum asking for help.
>
> As early as Post #2 you were directed to read the forum
procedures which are there for a reason.
>
> You have not posted what's required i.e. we're still missing
the VRM and back of the PCN.
>
> You have submitted your own challenge.
>
> Hey ho.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thanks for your reply, I did indeed ask for help. Specifically
about how a CEO make notes etc. on first observation of a
vehicle.
Genuinely intrigued as to how the VRM is relevant? It has been
correctly entered on the PCN as has the make and colour.
#Post#: 84238--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: LT
Date: August 5, 2025, 9:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: theronstar link ---
>
> Hello,
>
> I am a traffic warden in London, and have been watching this
forum with interest.
>
> This is the first thread where I feel that I may have a unique
contribution to make.
>
> I observe cars under contravention code 30F, and to be honest
with you, do not record the valve position, because it is too
cumbersome a task.
>
> On my handheld, I record when I first 'observe' the vehicle. I
note the 'make' and 'colour' of the vehicle. I note the location
of the vehicle e.g. outside Tesco Express, then save the
observation.
>
> In a shift, I can 'observe' 100 vehicles in the free parking
bays, but only issue a PCN to a couple of them.
>
> It is incredibly arduous to record lots and lots of
information in an observation that I am most likely going to
discard.
>
> I can imagine that it sucks for the motorist, who may have
doubts about when I really did start observing their vehicle.
However, I tell them that falsifying an observation is a very
serious matter, so I would like to think that colleagues don't
resort to that.
>
> I was trained to take photos after the contravention has
occurred and taught that it is incorrect to take photos of a
vehicle that - at that point - is not offending.
>
> One caveat I will mention is that every local authority does
seem to have its own modus operandi. With that in mind, I
suspect that another warden could come along and say something
entirely different from me.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you so much for your input.
I doubt that the CEO intentionally falsified the time, as you
say that is a very serious matter. My thinking was that it was
most likely to be an error on the touch screen.
Sadly, I have no proof, which is 'Sods Law' as ordinarily I'd
have had multiple witnesses as to my whereabouts. As such it's
my word against theirs. BANES have yet to officially respond,
but in my experience they always take a long time to do so and
stand firm. Which is why I have had to defeat them four times so
far at adjudication.
#Post#: 84288--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: sx4
Date: August 5, 2025, 12:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The hand held computer is like a mobile smartphone where the
time is live and correct all the time just like your phone.
So when the CEO enters your car reg (VRM) at start of
observation he doesn’t enter the time it is automatically there
on the HHC , so no chance of error on touching screen regarding
start of observation.
By the way I am a retired CEO but now will use my experience to
explain and help forum users on here if I can.
#Post#: 84320--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: August 5, 2025, 4:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Good to have hands-on experience.
In short, and on the balance of probabilities, the OP is
incorrect in casting aspersions on the CEO's timings!
#Post#: 84679--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: LT
Date: August 7, 2025, 5:33 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: sx4 link ---
>
> The hand held computer is like a mobile smartphone where the
time is live and correct all the time just like your phone.
> So when the CEO enters your car reg (VRM) at start of
observation he doesn’t enter the time it is automatically there
on the HHC , so no chance of error on touching screen regarding
start of observation.
> By the way I am a retired CEO but now will use my experience
to explain and help forum users on here if I can.
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you so much, that’s massively helpful and exactly the
information I was looking for.
Will wait and see what response I eventually get from the
council. I still don’t believe I was parked at that time, but
thanks to your input, challenging the CEO’s input is not an
option.
Faulty equipment could be a slight possibility I guess, but
again I have no proof and even it was, the council aren’t likely
to admit it.
Thanks again.
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