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       #Post#: 83329--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Proof of observed times.
   DIR By: LT
       Date: July 29, 2025, 11:16 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
       >
       > They sometimes record valve positions in notes.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Would they not take a photograph to do that?
       #Post#: 83330--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Proof of observed times.
   DIR By: stamfordman
       Date: July 29, 2025, 11:20 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: LT link ---
       >
       > [quote author=stamfordman link=topic=7454.msg83327#msg83327
       date=1753805648]
       > They sometimes record valve positions in notes.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Would they not take a photograph to do that?
       [/quote]
       No - more likely to just quickly note positions. Taking pictures
       of many vehicles not in contravention is not productive.
       #Post#: 83331--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Proof of observed times.
   DIR By: LT
       Date: July 29, 2025, 11:43 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
       >
       > [quote author=LT link=topic=7454.msg83329#msg83329
       date=1753805766]
       > [quote author=stamfordman link=topic=7454.msg83327#msg83327
       date=1753805648]
       > They sometimes record valve positions in notes.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Would they not take a photograph to do that?
       [/quote]
       No - more likely to just quickly note positions. Taking pictures
       of many vehicles not in contravention is not productive.
       [/quote]
       I'd have thought quicker to take a photo and delete it later
       than make notes, but I take your point. There are very few
       parking zones in the centre of Bath that are not either
       residents permits only or that you have to pay for.
       Question is, do I have any grounds to challenge this without any
       tangible proof of when I initially parked?
       #Post#: 83336--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Proof of observed times.
   DIR By: H C Andersen
       Date: July 29, 2025, 11:58 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       You are clutching at straws IMO.
       The CEO's evidence will be their notes. Are you suggesting that
       on one of their regular patrols in which notes would have been
       taken of numerous vehicles prior to yours the CEO issued the PCN
       and then counted back to the random time of 8.04? But if their
       notes don't show them in the road at 8.04 then they could
       whistle goodbye to their job. All to issue you with a PCN.
       The legal test at adjudication is balance of probabilities.
       You've not provided any evidence, however circumstantial, that
       you parked nearer to 9am.
       You must have a routine, you get up, you go to work, you catch a
       train, you open a shop.....something must have happened after
       you parked. You've given us nothing to work with.
       #Post#: 83344--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Proof of observed times.
   DIR By: LT
       Date: July 29, 2025, 12:39 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
       >
       > You are clutching at straws IMO.
       >
       > The CEO's evidence will be their notes. Are you suggesting
       that on one of their regular patrols in which notes would have
       been taken of numerous vehicles prior to yours the CEO issued
       the PCN and then counted back to the random time of 8.04? But if
       their notes don't show them in the road at 8.04 then they could
       whistle goodbye to their job. All to issue you with a PCN.
       >
       > The legal test at adjudication is balance of probabilities.
       You've not provided any evidence, however circumstantial, that
       you parked nearer to 9am.
       >
       > You must have a routine, you get up, you go to work, you catch
       a train, you open a shop.....something must have happened after
       you parked. You've given us nothing to work with.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I left a house where I was alone, drove my vehicle to the street
       and parked, then walked to house of a relative who was on
       holiday, where I did some tasks and left again.
       No proof whatsoever, other than my word and possibly that my
       vehicle may have ben detected by CCTV en route. Odd I know, but
       hence my query regarding CEO proof. If I had evidence to prove
       otherwise, I wouldn't waste the time of anyone on here.
       #Post#: 83354--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Proof of observed times.
   DIR By: RichardW
       Date: July 29, 2025, 1:18 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Do you have an Android phone? Google timeline may well have
       recorded your movements
       #Post#: 83359--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Proof of observed times.
   DIR By: Neil B
       Date: July 29, 2025, 2:22 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: LT link ---
       >
       > Hopefully my photo of the pcn will be attached.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       You've obscured your VRM - why?
       We can't look at photos for ourselves.
       #Post#: 83367--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Proof of observed times.
   DIR By: LT
       Date: July 29, 2025, 2:54 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: RichardW link ---
       >
       > Do you have an Android phone? Google timeline may well have
       recorded your movements
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Thanks for your reply, great idea and not one that I’d thought
       of. Sadly, I use an iPhone.
       I did wonder if my vehicles ecu could be used to provide
       evidence. Not sure the hassle of getting that information, if
       it’s possible, is worth the £25 though.
       #Post#: 83369--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Proof of observed times.
   DIR By: LT
       Date: July 29, 2025, 2:57 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Neil B link ---
       >
       > [quote author=LT link=topic=7454.msg83317#msg83317
       date=1753803736]
       > Hopefully my photo of the pcn will be attached.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       You've obscured your VRM - why?
       We can't look at photos for ourselves.
       [/quote]
       Old habits…..👍
       Not sure how the VRM would be relevant to my query tbh, but
       appreciate your feedback.
       #Post#: 83428--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Proof of observed times.
   DIR By: sx4
       Date: July 30, 2025, 5:56 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Photos are never taken at first observation only valve positions
       recorded.
       The reason for this is the CEO might be logging in lots of
       vehicles and taking photos of all would use too much disc space
       on his hand held computer.
       But at the original start of observation your VRM and valve
       positions would be inputted in to HHC and the time of this input
       CANNOT be changed .
       photos are then taken at time of issue of PCN to prove that
       valve positions are the same as initially inputted into HHC also
       photos of car vrm , signs and lines
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