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#Post#: 83300--------------------------------------------------
Proof of observed times.
DIR By: LT
Date: July 29, 2025, 9:17 am
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I have received a PCN for a Code:30 offence of being parked for
longer than permitted. My belief is that the CEO has made an
error on the time when my vehicle was first observed.
I have no proof to verify the time I parked and the Council have
confirmed that there is no CCTV coverage of the street. they
have also confirmed that there are no photographs of my vehicle
at the alleged time it was first observed.
The CEO took multiple photographs of my vehicle at the time of
issuing the PCN, but none at the time it was first 'observed'.
I have challenged this PCN under procedural impropriety and
would be grateful for any feedback.
Do I have to accept that the observed times by the CEO is taken
as 'gospel' and it's a case of my word versus theirs, or is
their a case to challenge it?
Thanks in advance.
#Post#: 83303--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: July 29, 2025, 9:39 am
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Read this:
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
and post the stuff.
#Post#: 83314--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: LT
Date: July 29, 2025, 10:38 am
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This relates to a free parking zone, for two hours no return
permitted within an hour.
I accidentally (website not that clear) submitted a challenge on
the grounds of procedural impropriety without having submitted
my reasons. I had been trying to find photographic evidence
first.
This wasn’t available, so I telephoned the council who then
emailed me multiple photos of my vehicle, all date and time
stamped when the PCN was issued.
I emailed back asking for proof of the time my vehicle was first
observed and if CCTV footage was available to support this.
The emailed reply was and I quote accurately: “CEO can only
recorded vehicle that are in situate at the time in the
location. I am unaware if CCTV is in operation at this
location. Your appeal has bee received and will be dealt with on
due course”
My belief is that the CEO has made an error on the first
observed time. Sadly, I have no supporting evidence or witnesses
to prove this.
Many thanks.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 83317--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: LT
Date: July 29, 2025, 10:42 am
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Hopefully my photo of the pcn will be attached.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 83319--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: LT
Date: July 29, 2025, 10:49 am
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HTML https://ibb.co/TM07ZfF1
#Post#: 83320--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: July 29, 2025, 10:50 am
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My belief is that the CEO has made an error on the first
observed time. Sadly, I have no supporting evidence or witnesses
to prove this.
Then on what basis do you hold this belief?
The restricted times begin at 8am, it therefore seems perfectly
plausible that a CEO would begin to check cars at this time, in
your case 8.04.
#Post#: 83321--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: July 29, 2025, 11:04 am
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The CEO's notes are sufficient to enforce a contravention.
They sometimes take pics of wheel valve positions to show the
vehicle hasn't moved - are there any in the pics?
#Post#: 83322--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: LT
Date: July 29, 2025, 11:06 am
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I agree that it is entirely plausible that a CEO would begin to
check cars at the given observed time. I don't agree that my
vehicle was parked there then though, I would guess it was
parked just before 9am, but can't prove this. I didn't actually
check as I knew I'd definitely be parked there for less than two
hours.
Hence my initial question; "Do I have to accept that the
observed times by the CEO is taken as 'gospel' and it's a case
of my word versus theirs, or is their a case to challenge it?"
As the CEO took no photographs when they first observed my
vehicle, I am assuming that they made a note of my vehicle
registration, which presumably is now recorded digitally.
BANES have form for procedural impropriety and I have in the
past successfully challenged, at adjudication level, three Bus
Lane and one parking PCN's. In the earlier days of PePiPoo I
helped several people to successfully challenge the same
incorrectly signed Bus Lanes.
My initial thoughts are that without supporting evidence on when
I first parked, I have no case, but on the basis of 'if you
don't ask' I'm here now.
#Post#: 83325--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: LT
Date: July 29, 2025, 11:11 am
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--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> The CEO's notes are sufficient to enforce a contravention.
>
> They sometimes take pics of wheel valve positions to show the
vehicle hasn't moved - are there any in the pics?
>
--- End Quote ---
Thank you for your reply.
All the photos, including several of just the wheels are time
stamped at 10:44 and 10:45. Which seems odd, as why take wheel
position photographs if you didn't take any prior photographs.
#Post#: 83327--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proof of observed times.
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: July 29, 2025, 11:14 am
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They sometimes record valve positions in notes.
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