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#Post#: 83158--------------------------------------------------
Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
DIR By: bigred247
Date: July 28, 2025, 11:25 am
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Hi all,
My wife just received a PCN through the post. Due to roadworks
and closures in the area, she had to reroute, which may have
caused some confusion. Can this be challenged on the basis of
the ambiguous "term-time only" signage?
Honestly, I'm fed up with how easy it is to get a ticket these
days—I’m even considering getting her a push bike for local
commuting!
HTML https://i.imgur.com/Usmeg8e.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/yIp8n6a.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/8vWj4xG.jpeg
HTML https://i.imgur.com/poKfMPo.jpeg
#Post#: 83160--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: July 28, 2025, 11:35 am
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Cases have been won on the term time sign and the date - 21 July
- is certainly open to being out of term time.
Looks like you've also put some pics that aren't at this
location.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/vxLH6WC5/Um-JHe-Ux-PVGR3-T3-RFek-NJLz-M4-Sm-Zya29-FZXJr-QUp-YT2-U4-UEh-QYn-Fz-SDRSRHd-UWWh-OZWx6a1-Yr-Y3-Fke.gif
#Post#: 83165--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
DIR By: bigred247
Date: July 28, 2025, 11:46 am
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You are right. I've put some pics from the other side of the
school i think. I have now removed these from the OP. The
location is about 10 mins from my home, so i'll drive back to
the location and get the right pics.
#Post#: 83166--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
DIR By: bigred247
Date: July 28, 2025, 11:47 am
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21/7 is the date of notice
17/7 is the said date of offence
#Post#: 83168--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
DIR By: Princeperch
Date: July 28, 2025, 11:51 am
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Redbridge have a nasty little habit of not taking down the signs
even when the school term is over.
Couple this with their own website which gives some reassurance
that the school term was over when the alleged contravention was
committed, id be very tempted to defend this one until the end.
HTML https://www.redbridge.gov.uk/schools/term-dates/
#Post#: 83169--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: July 28, 2025, 11:58 am
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Ah yes but 17 July is holiday time in my book and even if it
wasn't the signage is defective at any time.
-----------
Case reference
Appellant
Authority
VRM
PCN Details
PCN
Contravention date
Contravention time
Contravention location
Penalty amount
Contravention
Referral date
Decision Date
Adjudicator
Appeal decision
Direction
Reasons
this vehicle failed to comply with a pedestrian zone
restriction. The restriction is signed by regulatory signs
posted on either side of the entrance to this road. There is a
plate below each sign with the following wording thereon set
against a blue background: 'School Streets Restricted Access
Term time only'. The appellant thought that the restriction was
not in force as he believed that it was outside school term
times. I am satified on the council's case that it wasn't, but a
motorist cannot be expected to know when driving whether or not
a relevant date falls within school term times and I am not
therefore satisfied that this restriction was clearly conveyed
to the appellant. The contravention has not therefore be proved.
I allow the appeal.
----------
Case reference
Appellant
Authority
VRM
PCN Details
PCN
Contravention date
Contravention time
Contravention location
Penalty amount
Contravention
Referral date
Decision Date
Adjudicator
Appeal decision
Direction
Reasons
clarity of the signage is in one respect well founded.
Under the terms of the Traffic Management Order the restriction
on the Zone sign applies on all days during the restricted
hours. There is no limitation as to school term time nor does
any such limitation appear on the Zone signs. The Council,
however, has added a blue sign stating “School Streets
Restricted Access Term time only” This non-statutory sign is
intended no doubt to inform motorists that the Council, as
matter of discretion, will not enforce the prohibition out of
term time. However I agree with the Appellant that a motorist
will not necessarily know what is and is not term time,
particularly on a date so close to Christmas. For this reason,
references to term time on signage have always been frowned upon
in the Traffic Signs Manual. The addition of this sign
inevitably undermines the clarity of the Zone sign which
correctly reflects the TMO.
The site photographs show the presence of advance warning signs
and, for the avoidance of doubt, had it not been for the
presence of the blue signs I would have held that the signage is
otherwise perfectly clear. Motorists cannot assume that because
a route was open to them on a previous occasion that will never
change. Evidence of the number of contraventions, requested
under FO,I is of virtually no value unless one knows the
converse (which in practice one never does) i.e. how many
motorists found the signage clear and complied with it.
Nevertheless as I am not satisfied the signage was clear in its
present form the Appeal must be allowed.
#Post#: 83170--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
DIR By: bigred247
Date: July 28, 2025, 12:04 pm
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[member=2249]stamfordman[/member]
[member=881]Princeperch[/member]
Thanks for the insight and details :) I have started a draft
representation and will post it here when ready.
#Post#: 83189--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
DIR By: Dave Green
Date: July 28, 2025, 1:39 pm
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--- Quote from: stamfordman link ---
>
> Ah yes but 17 July is holiday time in my book and even if it
wasn't the signage is defective at any time.
--- End Quote ---
Am I missing something as the link provided to the terms dates:
HTML https://www.redbridge.gov.uk/schools/term-dates/
shows that the date of the offence (17th July), was in term
time:
--- Quote ---
> Summer Term 2025
> Tuesday 22 April 2025 to Tuesday 22 July 2025
>
> Half term break - Monday 26 May 2025 to Friday 30 May 2025
>
--- End Quote ---
#Post#: 83198--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: July 28, 2025, 2:25 pm
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--- Quote from: Dave Green link ---
>
> [quote author=stamfordman link=topic=7439.msg83169#msg83169
date=1753721885]
> Ah yes but 17 July is holiday time in my book and even if it
wasn't the signage is defective at any time.
--- End Quote ---
Am I missing something as the link provided to the terms dates:
HTML https://www.redbridge.gov.uk/schools/term-dates/
shows that the date of the offence (17th July), was in term
time:
--- Quote ---
> Summer Term 2025
> Tuesday 22 April 2025 to Tuesday 22 July 2025
>
> Half term break - Monday 26 May 2025 to Friday 30 May 2025
>
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
Sorry - wasn't being clear. 17 July is near the end of term so
reinforces the defence that a driver couldn't know term times to
the exact day.
#Post#: 83208--------------------------------------------------
Re: Redbridge - 53J - term time only sign
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: July 28, 2025, 3:46 pm
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Any representations must be handled carefully. To include seeing
the blue sign and being confused by it.
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