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#Post#: 83247--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stopped in a restricted area outside a school - Given ticket
after school closed for summer
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: July 29, 2025, 3:29 am
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OP, IMO you have your challenge.
I would suggest something along the lines of:
I parked as I thought that logically a 'no stopping on school
entrance' sign with such specific times would apply only in term
time. I accept that this doesn't appear on the sign, but it is
improbable that any other activities which might take place
during the holidays would do so such that these only occurred on
Mon-Fri and that there was any purpose served by the very
specific times. Having received the PCN I took the opportunity
to research the matter and discovered a reference to the
following order in the London Gazette:
The Harrow (Prohibition of Stopping Outside Schools) (Amendment
No. 1) Traffic Order 1998 (The Harrow (Waiting and Loading
Restriction) (Amendment No. 103) Traffic Order 1998
HTML https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/L-55152-493
The notice states that the school prohibition would apply during
term time only and then oddly refers to traffic signage(which
isn't a function of a TMO) which is at odds with this
prohibition i.e. 'Schedule: Vehicles not to stop on School
Markings when the Sign is displayed Mondays to Fridays between
8.30 a.m. and 9.30 a.m. and between 3 p.m. and 4.30 p.m
I believe that the sign in evidence in my case is incorrect and
that the prohibition applies during term time only.
Consequently, the PCN must be cancelled.
Should the authority not cancel the PCN then its rejection must
include whatever TMO which supersedes the 1998 order and which
creates the all-year prohibition and not simply rely upon the
sign which, as my evidence shows, is incorrect.
#Post#: 83252--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stopped in a restricted area outside a school - Given ticket
after school closed for summer
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: July 29, 2025, 5:08 am
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The ending of the school term at lunchtime on that day needs to
be cited as per:
HTML https://primarysite-prod-sorted.s3.amazonaws.com/westlodgeprimary/UploadedDocument/28ffa605-b396-4bb0-91f9-16c2e5f375d6/term-dates-2024-25.pdf
Here's the amendment order changing the hours of operation.
--------
Road Traffic Acts
London Borough of Harrow
WEST LODGE SCHOOL KEEP CLEAR STOPPING PROHIBITIONS – CHANGE OF
OPERATIONAL HOURS
THE HARROW (PROHIBITION OF STOPPING OUTSIDE SCHOOLS) (AMENDMENT
NO. 5) TRAFFIC ORDER 2019
1. NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that the Council of the London Borough
of Harrow has made the above mentioned order under Section 6, 7,
124 and Part IV of Schedule 9 to the Road Traffic Regulation Act
1984 as amended by the Local Government Act 1985 and all other
enabling powers.
2. The Harrow (Prohibition of Stopping Outside Schools)
(Amendment No. 5) Traffic Order 2019 changes the existing hours
of operation of the existing school stopping prohibitions in
West End Lane and Northfield Avenue. The new hours are 7.45am to
9.30am and 3pm to 5pm Monday to Friday.
3. A copy of the order, which will come into operation on 21st
October 2019, including documents giving more particulars of the
order, are available for inspection at request between 9am and
5pm, Mondays to Fridays at the One Stop Shop at the Civic
Centre, until 6 weeks from the date on which the order was made.
4. If any person wishes to question the validity of the order or
its provisions on the grounds that they are not within the
powers conferred by the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, or
that any requirement of the Act or of any instrument made under
the Act has not been complied with, that person may, within six
weeks of the date on which the order is made, apply for the
purpose to the High Court. A copy of this notice may be viewed
at www.harrow.gov.uk/trafficorders
Dated 17th October 2019
David Eaglesham
Head of Traffic, Highways and Asset Management
Community Directorate, PO Box 39, Civic Centre, Station Road,
Harrow, HA1 2XA
#Post#: 83257--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stopped in a restricted area outside a school - Given ticket
after school closed for summer
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: July 29, 2025, 5:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Good find and this changes some matters i.e. the timings.
But it doesn't address the issue of 'during school term times'.
How do we find out if this simply amends the 1998 Order, in
which case 'during school term times' could well still be
current, or whether this or a previous amendment changed matters
to 365 days?
#Post#: 83260--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stopped in a restricted area outside a school - Given ticket
after school closed for summer
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: July 29, 2025, 5:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> Good find and this changes some matters i.e. the timings.
>
> But it doesn't address the issue of 'during school term
times'.
>
> How do we find out if this simply amends the 1998 Order, in
which case 'during school term times' could well still be
current, or whether this or a previous amendment changed matters
to 365 days?
>
--- End Quote ---
You tell me. In any case Harrow can be asked if it enforces in
holidays.
I think the general effect is in effect and the subsequent order
just amends the operational schedule which doesn't specify term
times:
2. The general effect of the (Prohibiton of Stopping Outside
Schools) (Amendment) Order will be to amend The Harrow
(Prohibition of Stopping Outside Schools) Traffic Order 1997, so
that in the length of street specified in the Schedule to this
notice between 8.30 a.m. to 9.30 a.m. and 3 p.m. to 4.30 p.m.
Mondays to Fridays during school term times would be prohibited.
Schedule
Vehicles not to stop on School Markings when the Sign is
displayed Mondays to Fridays between 8.30 a.m. and 9.30 a.m. and
between 3 p.m. and 4.30 p.m.
There are 14 possibly relevant notices I think - have a look.
HTML https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/notice?text=west+end+lane+school+harrow&categorycode=G108000000¬icetypes=&location-postcode-1=&location-distance-1=1&location-local-authority-1=The+London+Borough+of+Harrow%253AHarrow&numberOfLocationSearches=1&start-publish-date=&end-publish-date=&edition=&london-issue=&edinburgh-issue=&belfast-issue=&sort-by=latest-date&results-page-size=10&results-page=1
#Post#: 83269--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stopped in a restricted area outside a school - Given ticket
after school closed for summer
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: July 29, 2025, 6:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
As I read it ..
'Schedule
Vehicles not to stop on School Markings when the Sign [which
provides for a prohibition 'during school term times'] is
displayed Mondays to Fridays between 8.30 a.m. and 9.30 a.m. and
between 3 p.m. and 4.30 p.m.'
Anyway OP, I suggest you draw up a draft and post here.
#Post#: 83470--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stopped in a restricted area outside a school - Given ticket
after school closed for summer
DIR By: challenge_cheaters
Date: July 30, 2025, 9:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Amazing research! Thank you all. When you say OP, are you
referring to me? Additionally, the car is a hire vehicle. Let me
know if that changes anything?
#Post#: 83484--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stopped in a restricted area outside a school - Given ticket
after school closed for summer
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: July 30, 2025, 9:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
If they reject the informal challenge and you want to continue
the NTO will go the hire company.
What is their policy for handling PCNs? They also often charge
fees.
#Post#: 83507--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stopped in a restricted area outside a school - Given ticket
after school closed for summer
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: July 30, 2025, 1:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: challenge_cheaters link ---
>
> Amazing research! Thank you all. When you say OP, are you
referring to me? Additionally, the car is a hire vehicle. Let me
know if that changes anything?
>
--- End Quote ---
OP = Original Poster
#Post#: 83508--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stopped in a restricted area outside a school - Given ticket
after school closed for summer
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: July 30, 2025, 1:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Is it 'hired' or is it 'leased'?
Unfortunately, the issue is fundamental, not incidental,
because, as already stated, should your informal reps be
rejected and the matter progress to a NTO this would be sent to
the hire/lease company and then you're in their hands.
So, let's get the best informal reps as we can compiled.
#Post#: 83519--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stopped in a restricted area outside a school - Given ticket
after school closed for summer
DIR By: challenge_cheaters
Date: July 30, 2025, 3:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> Is it 'hired' or is it 'leased'?
>
> Unfortunately, the issue is fundamental, not incidental,
because, as already stated, should your informal reps be
rejected and the matter progress to a NTO this would be sent to
the hire/lease company and then you're in their hands.
>
> So, let's get the best informal reps as we can compiled.
>
--- End Quote ---
Actually, it's a lease.
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