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#Post#: 85059--------------------------------------------------
Re: City of London, Code 53 - Restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone, Old Broad Street x2
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: August 11, 2025, 2:06 am
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The deemed date of service of the PCN is 28th July. It is not
necessarily the same date as received. This is important when
you work out the 28 days in which to make representations.
The other point is that Schedule I para. 5 (2) (a) states they
cannot serve a charge certificate until 28 days from the date of
service of the PCN:
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/enacted
(a)where no representations are made under paragraph 1 above,
with the date on which the penalty charge notice is served;
This is an infamous paradox.
#Post#: 85114--------------------------------------------------
Re: City of London, Code 53 - Restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone, Old Broad Street x2
DIR By: hirerspcn
Date: August 11, 2025, 8:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Incandescent link ---
>
> So the signs are correct, it would seem.
>
> Approach signs in either direction on London Wall advise of a
restriction. On turning in the sign has an exception for access,
which I suspect they don't enforce, as there must be vehicles
coming and going all the time for tbe businesses along there
like delivery companies etc, so it's a PITA for them dealing
with reps from people accessing properties. This figures,
because you got a PCN for the next sign which bars all traffic
except buses. I think the sign when you turn has been there much
longer than the second sign, and they should have removed the
first sign, but this is dozy City of London.
>
> However, your problem is that you seem to have missed all the
signs ! I'm afraid to say, I see no credible appeal based on the
signs in place. There may be a technical appeal based on CoL
mismanagement of the enforcement process, but I'll leave that
for Hippocrates or others to suggest, as they are much more
up-to-speed on this aspect. Such appeals have nothing to do with
the contravention at all.
>
> Sorry not to have been of more help.
>
--- End Quote ---
It’s ok, thanks for all the advice.
I have a question though, should there be signs on both sides of
the road for a contravention to be valid? In this instance there
was only 1 sign on the left hand side, and there were no advance
warning for this particular sign.
While i do not remember if there were any vehicles parked on the
left hand side, which could have been obstructing my view of the
sign, will this help as argument if i wrote it in an appeal?
#Post#: 85115--------------------------------------------------
Re: City of London, Code 53 - Restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone, Old Broad Street x2
DIR By: hirerspcn
Date: August 11, 2025, 8:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> The deemed date of service of the PCN is 28th July. It is not
necessarily the same date as received. This is important when
you work out the 28 days in which to make representations.
>
> The other point is that Schedule I para. 5 (2) (a) states they
cannot serve a charge certificate until 28 days from the date of
service of the PCN:
>
>
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/enacted
>
>
> (a)where no representations are made under paragraph 1 above,
with the date on which the penalty charge notice is served;
>
> This is an infamous paradox.
>
--- End Quote ---
Is this comment a mistake? Intended for another post?
#Post#: 85127--------------------------------------------------
Re: City of London, Code 53 - Restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone, Old Broad Street x2
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: August 11, 2025, 9:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
OP, can I go back to the start please.
(7)This section applies to a hiring agreement under the terms of
which the vehicle concerned is let to the hirer for a fixed
period of less than six months (whether or not that period is
capable of extension by agreement between the parties or
otherwise);
Is this your hire?
If not, then who may be considered to be the owner as far as
this legislation is concerned has yet to be determined.
#Post#: 85159--------------------------------------------------
Re: City of London, Code 53 - Restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone, Old Broad Street x2
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: August 11, 2025, 11:17 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: hirerspcn link ---
>
> [quote author=Hippocrates link=topic=7415.msg85059#msg85059
date=1754895960]
> The deemed date of service of the PCN is 28th July. It is not
necessarily the same date as received. This is important when
you work out the 28 days in which to make representations.
>
> The other point is that Schedule I para. 5 (2) (a) states they
cannot serve a charge certificate until 28 days from the date of
service of the PCN:
>
>
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/enacted
>
>
> (a)where no representations are made under paragraph 1 above,
with the date on which the penalty charge notice is served;
>
> This is an infamous paradox.
>
--- End Quote ---
Is this comment a mistake? Intended for another post?
[/quote]
Er..NO!
#Post#: 85238--------------------------------------------------
Re: City of London, Code 53 - Restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone, Old Broad Street x2
DIR By: hirerspcn
Date: August 11, 2025, 5:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> OP, can I go back to the start please.
>
> (7)This section applies to a hiring agreement under the terms
of which the vehicle concerned is let to the hirer for a fixed
period of less than six months (whether or not that period is
capable of extension by agreement between the parties or
otherwise);
>
>
> Is this your hire?
>
> If not, then who may be considered to be the owner as far as
this legislation is concerned has yet to be determined.
>
--- End Quote ---
Sorry I don’t understand this point, please can you elaborate.
Thanks
#Post#: 85239--------------------------------------------------
Re: City of London, Code 53 - Restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone, Old Broad Street x2
DIR By: hirerspcn
Date: August 11, 2025, 5:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hippocrates link ---
>
> Er..NO!
>
--- End Quote ---
Well the dates are as follows:
Contravention 1: 12/06/2025
Contravention 2: 10/07/2025
Date of Notice for 1&2: 24/07/2025
Date Received: 25/07/2025
Thanks
#Post#: 85264--------------------------------------------------
Re: City of London, Code 53 - Restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone, Old Broad Street x2
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: August 12, 2025, 3:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
HCA wants to see the hire agreement I think.
#Post#: 85515--------------------------------------------------
Re: City of London, Code 53 - Restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone, Old Broad Street x2
DIR By: hirerspcn
Date: August 13, 2025, 9:15 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
>
> OP, can I go back to the start please.
>
> (7)This section applies to a hiring agreement under the terms
of which the vehicle concerned is let to the hirer for a fixed
period of less than six months (whether or not that period is
capable of extension by agreement between the parties or
otherwise);
>
>
> Is this your hire?
>
> If not, then who may be considered to be the owner as far as
this legislation is concerned has yet to be determined.
>
--- End Quote ---
Can i Message you with my hire agreement?
[member=428]H C Andersen[/member]
#Post#: 85517--------------------------------------------------
Re: City of London, Code 53 - Restriction on vehicles entering a
pedestrian zone, Old Broad Street x2
DIR By: hirerspcn
Date: August 13, 2025, 9:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
If not, I'll paste some snippets from the agreement for PCNs
etc:
Commencement Date
08/04/2025 03:05 PM
End Date
30/09/2025 11:59 PM - Less then 6 months
10. RESPONSIBILITY FOR FINES, PENALTIES, AND PCNS
10.1 Hirer's Responsibility: The Hirer agrees to be fully
responsible for any and all fines,
penalties, charges, or notices incurred during the rental
period. This includes, but is not
limited to, parking tickets, traffic violations, congestion
charges, toll charges, and any
other Penalty Charge Notices (PCNs) issued by any authority.
This clause is in
accordance with the Road Traffic Act 1988 and any applicable
regulations.
a. Any of the following offenses which may be committed in
relation to that Vehicle
when it is Stationary and when a fixed penalty notice is issued;
being on a road
during the hours of darkness Without the lights or reflectors
required by law; or
left or being parked, or being loaded or unloaded And the
non-payment of charge
made at a street parking place and/or Pay & Display
b. Any fixed penalty offense committed in respect of that
vehicle under part iii of
Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 as amended, replaced, or
extended by any
subsequent legislation applicable to Scotland, Northern Ireland,
or other parts of
the British Isles upon which the vehicle is being used.
c. Any excess charge which may be incurred in respect of that
vehicle in pursuance
an Order under Section 45 and 46 of the Road Traffic Act 1984,
as amended,
replaced or extended by and subsequent Or orders and under the
equivalent
legislation applicable to Scotland, Northern Ireland
d. Any financial penalty or charge which may be demanded by a
third party as a
result of the vehicle having been parked or left upon land which
is not a public
road.
e. I acknowledge that if I receive a bus lane ticket, G&M Direct
Hire will pay the fine
on my behalf. The corresponding amount will then be
automatically added to my
next Direct Debit. If the vehicle has already been returned, the
amount will instead
be deducted from my deposit.
10.2 Notification and Payment: The Hirer agrees to promptly pay
any such fines, penalties,
charges, or notices. In the event that any such fines or
penalties are sent directly to the
Owner, the Hirer authorizes the Owner to charge the rente's
account or credit card for
the full amount of the fines or penalties plus an administrative
fee of £10 for handling
the processing of these fines or penalties. The same charge will
apply should the Hirer wish to challenge the representation and
requests the Owner to transfer the liability to
them by making representation to the local authority who issued
the penalty. This is in
line with the provisions set forth under the Road Traffic (Owner
Liability) Regulations
2000.
10.3
Disputes: If the Hirer wishes to dispute any fines, penalties,
or PCNs, the Hirer must do
so at their own expense and liability, following the procedures
outlined in the Road
Traffic Act 1991. The Owner will provide necessary documentation
to assist in the
dispute process if applicable. The Hirer acknowledges their
obligation to adhere to the
legal process for disputing fines as prescribed by the Road
Traffic Act and any relevant
local authority regulations.
10.4 Indemnification: The Hirer agrees to indemnify and hold
harmless the Owner from and
against any and all claims, demands, actions, liabilities,
losses, or expenses (including
legal fees and costs) arising out of or related to any fines,
penalties, or PCNs incurred
during the rental period. This indemnification aligns with the
liability provisions under
the Road Traffic Act 1988.
10.5
Reporting: The Hirer must report any fines, penalties, or PCNs
received during the
rental period to the Owner immediately upon return of the car.
This requirement
ensures compliance with Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act 1988
regarding the duty to
provide information as to the identity of the driver.
10.6
Legal Compliance: The Hirer agrees to comply with all relevant
road traffic laws and
regulations during the rental period, including but not limited
to the Road Traffic Act
1988, the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, and any other
applicable legislation. The
renter acknowledges that failure to comply with these laws may
result in additional
penalties and charges.
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