DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
*****************************************************
#Post#: 89049--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southampton CC 33E Using route restricted to cereain
vehicles, Castle Way bus gate
DIR By: chris_w
Date: September 8, 2025, 10:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
OK, subject access request submitted.
I take it that I should be requesting the same information from
the council, as advised in volvo2025's thread here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/pcn-issued-60-days-after-bus-gate-contravention-by-southampton-city-council/msg88015/#msg88015?<br
/>If so, what's the best channel through which to do this? Just
replying to the email that I received with the NoR?
Any notes on this proposed response?
"Thank you for your email. I note that the Notice of Rejection
makes no mention of the date the registered keeper details were
requested nor the date on which those details were provided by
the secretary of state, only an assertion that these details
were not provided "in a timely manner". Could you please provide
those dates, as "in a timely manner" does not provide sufficient
information to establish that these details were not provided in
a timely manner and therefore the entitlement to the exemption
to the 28 day limit."
#Post#: 90523--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southampton CC 33E Using route restricted to cereain
vehicles, Castle Way bus gate
DIR By: chris_w
Date: September 18, 2025, 10:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
DVLA SAR response received:
Date of request: 21/07/2025
Date of Event: 26/05/2025
Also a note confirming that the request was submitted
electronically and the response would have been received the
next business day, not that it matters when the information was
requested outside the 28 day limit.
Whats my next step? Tribunal?
#Post#: 91077--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southampton CC 33E Using route restricted to cereain
vehicles, Castle Way bus gate
DIR By: chris_w
Date: September 23, 2025, 8:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Southampton City Council have responded with some records
showing that registered keeper details were requested on the 3rd
of June with no response received, then the details were
requested again on the 21st of July, with a response received
the next day.
I have until the 29th of this month to make an appeal, what
would you suggest? Does the council also need to demonstrate
that the problem was on the DVLA side of things and not with the
SCC system?
DVLA SAR response:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/t101JEg.jpeg
SCC letter:
HTML https://i.imgur.com/7aRZfQq.jpeg
#Post#: 91807--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southampton CC 33E Using route restricted to cereain
vehicles, Castle Way bus gate
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: September 28, 2025, 6:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: chris_w link ---
>
> Southampton City Council have responded with some records
showing that registered keeper details were requested on the 3rd
of June with no response received, then the details were
requested again on the 21st of July, with a response received
the next day.
>
> I have until the 29th of this month to make an appeal, what
would you suggest? Does the council also need to demonstrate
that the problem was on the DVLA side of things and not with the
SCC system?
>
>
> DVLA SAR response:
>
HTML https://i.imgur.com/t101JEg.jpeg
>
>
> SCC letter:
>
HTML https://i.imgur.com/7aRZfQq.jpeg
>
--- End Quote ---
Page 1 of the DVLA letter. What have you blanked out below the
Southampton entry?
#Post#: 91810--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southampton CC 33E Using route restricted to cereain
vehicles, Castle Way bus gate
DIR By: chris_w
Date: September 28, 2025, 6:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Another, unrelated private parking entry. It's dated later and
matches up with a different matter.
#Post#: 91812--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southampton CC 33E Using route restricted to cereain
vehicles, Castle Way bus gate
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: September 28, 2025, 7:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: chris_w link ---
>
> Another, unrelated private parking entry. It's dated later and
matches up with a different matter.
>
--- End Quote ---
OK but when was the request made to the DVLA?
Have you registered an appeal with the TPT yet?
01/09/2025 = Mon = Date of issue of Notice of Rejection
03/09/2025 = Wed = Deemed date of service of NoR and day 1 of 28
day relevant period
30/09/2025 = Tues = Day 28 of 28 relevant period and last day to
pay at discount (as per NoR) or to submit an appeal to the TPT.
If not, I wouldn't hang about. Get the appeal registered and put
"further evidence to follow" in the appropriate box. Make sure
you ask for a telephone hearing. Not a hearing on the papers.
You can always change your mind.
The DVLA log shows that the request (VQ4) was received on the
21st July 2025 and the result (VQ5) was provided the next
working day, ie the 22nd July 2025 . So well outside the 28 days
provided to issue and serve a PCN.
There is nothing in the DVLA record to support requests having
being made on the 3rd June 2025 or at any time before the 21st
July 2025. Or that the DVLA failed to respond to any such
request.
The V5c registration document for the car was last updated on
the 11th August 2024, so the DVLA held the registered keeper's
name and address well before the 26th May 2025, the date of the
alleged contravention.
The DVLA is the statutory holder and guardian of the data
requested, I would suggest that the DVLA's record of enquiries
is definitive. The authority might well have intended to request
the registered keepers details on the 3rd June however the VQ4
was clearly not actually received by the DVLA. This further
suggests a computer or electronic communication failure at the
enforcement authorities end.
In any event, even assuming that a request (VQ4) was ever
successfully submitted, which is not supported by the facts, to
the DVLA on June 3rd 2025 there has been an unreasonable delay
with follow-up by the enforcement authority when the expected
response failed to arrive. The authority would know very well
that a reply should be received the next working day. The
authority should have followed up with the DVLA when the
response (VQ5) failed to arrive. Waiting until the 27th July
2025 is plainly unreasonable and unjust.
A reasonable person would expect that the authority has routine
audit programs running on it's computer systems designed to
detect and capture failed transactions and procedures in place
to rectify identified cases within the statutory timeframes.
#Post#: 91834--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southampton CC 33E Using route restricted to cereain
vehicles, Castle Way bus gate
DIR By: chris_w
Date: September 28, 2025, 11:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you! I agree that this sounds like multiple process and or
IT issues on the SCC end.
--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> [quote author=chris_w link=topic=7410.msg91810#msg91810
date=1759059096]
> Another, unrelated private parking entry. It's dated later and
matches up with a different matter.
>
--- End Quote ---
OK but when was the request made to the DVLA?
[/quote]
The second line 22/07/2025 for an event dated 18/07/2025.
Enquiring reason "Breach of terms and conditions of a private
car park"
--- Quote from: Enceladus link ---
>
> Have you registered an appeal with the TPT yet?
>
--- End Quote ---
I've done that just now, with a short explaination of the
grounds. I did not see an option to request a telephone hearing.
Did I miss it or will I be given that choice later in the
process?
I also note that in section two, on page 3, the NoR shows the
wrong date for date of issue of the PCN. 26/05/2025 is shown
rather than 22/07/2025. Does that have any significance?
#Post#: 91840--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southampton CC 33E Using route restricted to cereain
vehicles, Castle Way bus gate
DIR By: Enceladus
Date: September 28, 2025, 11:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Email the Tribunal or telephone. Ask them to change the hearing
to one in person. In the case of the TPT that means telephone
hearing.
When we get your evidence together mention the "issue date" on
page 3. It's misleading but I'm not sure an adjudicator will
give it much credence. However it's arguably evidence that the
Southampton PCN case management system is flawed. Really the
system should have picked up the correct issue date and date of
posting of the PCN as being the 16th July.
#Post#: 94147--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southampton CC 33E Using route restricted to cereain
vehicles, Castle Way bus gate
DIR By: chris_w
Date: October 15, 2025, 6:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The tribunal process has advanced. The council have uploaded
their evidence and I have 7 days to request a telephone hearing.
Presumably need to upload my evidence before that time.
I'll need to put my evidence together and an argument that
they've behaved unjustly, as per [member=38]Enceladus[/member]
post below.
Would someone on here be able to help me draft this?
#Post#: 94156--------------------------------------------------
Re: Southampton CC 33E Using route restricted to cereain
vehicles, Castle Way bus gate
DIR By: John U.K.
Date: October 15, 2025, 6:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
In the Evidence Pack there should be
a list of contents,
and
a 2-3 page summary of why Southampton think the appeal should be
dismissed.
Please post these here and the experts will tell you if they
wish to see anything else.
*****************************************************
Page 2 of 4
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page