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#Post#: 7800--------------------------------------------------
Least worst PPC?
DIR By: guest46
Date: October 19, 2023, 10:07 am
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An apartment I let has a worsening issue with fly parking -
ironically the nearby GP surgery and Dentist have introduced
parking controls so guess where the displaced people are
parking!
The management company are proposing to use Creative Parking,
which from some research on 'another' site seem to have morphed
a couple of times and and associated with CEL?
I've been 'consulted' - are there any PPCs with even a modicum
of morality which someone here would be brave enough to suggest
please?
#Post#: 7806--------------------------------------------------
Re: Least worst PPC?
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: October 19, 2023, 11:23 am
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Residential car parks with PPCs on the prowl inevitably lead to
sharp practice - once the fly-parkers have been deterred, the
PPCs need to turn to exploiting mistakes by residents in order
to earn their money.
There are PPCs that are worse than others (If I had to pick one
to operate on land I had an interest in, I'd struggle to pick,
other than to say I'd want a BPA member, as POPLA is far better
than the IAS), but the contents of the contract between the
landowner and the PPC is probably more important than which PPC
it is. We've seen plenty of cases on here and PePiPoo where the
tail was wagging the dog, with the landowner unable to get
charges cancelled, for example. In any consultation response,
you might be keen to recommend that any contracts they sign give
them good leeway to get charges cancelled.
#Post#: 7836--------------------------------------------------
Re: Least worst PPC?
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: October 20, 2023, 2:10 am
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Not a PPC expert by any means and my view that good PPCs are
hens teeth is not helpful.
Manual operation not ANPR?
But on the contract side, not only that landlord can get charges
cancelled but also the whole contract should it become
untenable.
I've seen a few anecdotal stories of places like pubs employing
PPCs and being stuck with them due to costly cancellation
clauses
#Post#: 7882--------------------------------------------------
Re: Least worst PPC?
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: October 20, 2023, 11:51 am
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What's wrong with parking bollards, such as
HTML https://www.barriersdirect.co.uk/bollards-c1022/parking-bollards-c1223<br
/>?
They are 100% effective at deterring fly-parking, no litigation
follows from their use, nobody gets ripped off. Of course
there's also no private company that can make ongoing profits
either.
If the spaces are not assigned, you just need to get a set with
a universal key that can be given to all residents. It might
come at an up-front cost, but in the grand scheme of things it's
quite modest (many councils charge more for an annual permit)
and it's a one-off, and definitely the more moral solution IMO.
#Post#: 7905--------------------------------------------------
Re: Least worst PPC?
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: October 20, 2023, 2:59 pm
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--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> It might come at an up-front cost
>
--- End Quote ---
Probably why the management company aren't considering it
#Post#: 7909--------------------------------------------------
Re: Least worst PPC?
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: October 20, 2023, 5:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
>
> [quote author=cp8759 link=topic=740.msg7882#msg7882
date=1697820677]
> It might come at an up-front cost
>
--- End Quote ---
Probably why the management company aren't considering it
[/quote]
But the management company isn't in charge, the residents are.
Whether the residents are aware of this is of course another
matter.
#Post#: 7923--------------------------------------------------
Re: Least worst PPC?
DIR By: guest46
Date: October 21, 2023, 1:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
>
> [quote author=cp8759 link=topic=740.msg7882#msg7882
date=1697820677]
> It might come at an up-front cost
>
--- End Quote ---
Probably why the management company aren't considering it
[/quote]
--- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
>
> What's wrong with parking bollards, such as
HTML https://www.barriersdirect.co.uk/bollards-c1022/parking-bollards-c1223<br
/>?
>
> They are 100% effective at deterring fly-parking, no
litigation follows from their use, nobody gets ripped off. Of
course there's also no private company that can make ongoing
profits either.
>
> If the spaces are not assigned, you just need to get a set
with a universal key that can be given to all residents. It
might come at an up-front cost, but in the grand scheme of
things it's quite modest (many councils charge more for an
annual permit) and it's a one-off, and definitely the more moral
solution IMO.
>
--- End Quote ---
I wondered the same, but with numerous visitors, carers,
cleaners, deliveries etc etc it would be impossible to manage
the key/access arrangements.
#Post#: 7930--------------------------------------------------
Re: Least worst PPC?
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: October 21, 2023, 4:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: M60NJP link ---
>
> I wondered the same, but with numerous visitors, carers,
cleaners, deliveries etc etc it would be impossible to manage
the key/access arrangements.
>
--- End Quote ---
How many visitors' space are there, and how many spaces are for
residents only?
#Post#: 7940--------------------------------------------------
Re: Least worst PPC?
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 21, 2023, 5:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The issue doesn't lend itself to a simple answer.
As you've found out, effective parking controls are essential
while you have selfish, idle and cheapskate drivers who have no
regard for other people's property and the direct, and often
indirect, effects on others of their actions. Ironically, the
issue of paying for parking has a corollary: what are people
prepared to pay for protecting their parking rights?
So a necessary 'evil'?
DWMB2 put it: but the contents of the contract between the
landowner and the PPC is probably more important than which PPC
it is. We've seen plenty of cases on here and PePiPoo where the
tail was wagging the dog, with the landowner unable to get
charges cancelled, for example. In any consultation response,
you might be keen to recommend that any contracts they sign give
them good leeway to get charges cancelled.
So..:
What would be the parameters of the contract e.g. the PPC is
paid by the residents to protect their interests or you expect
them to do this FOC etc? How many residents? Over what
'customer' base would direct contract costs effectively be
charged? IMO, cancelling parking charges is not your first
consideration. We're all expectancy theorists(ETs) at heart so,
would each resident be prepared to pay £X per year to ensure
their rights are protected or run with the risk that they could
pay less but with the possibility that their forgetfulness might
cost them £Y in parking charges?
Talking of which, the displaced drivers are also ETs, so you
would have to think about what level of parking charge would
deter? And not just the charge, it's the likelihood of receiving
a charge which also feeds into the ET matrix. And what is the
problem e.g. long or short-term (commuter parking or parking for
shops) because this as much as anything else sets the scene.
And you could ask the other sites why they chose who they did,
why and problems encountered.
So, the issue isn't defined by 'least worst PPC'.
#Post#: 7946--------------------------------------------------
Re: Least worst PPC?
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: October 21, 2023, 6:42 am
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Some years ago, I was invited to the BPA's "!Parking Summit". A
representative of one of the biggest commercial landowners said
that his biggest problem with private parking enforcement was
that he could not find a single company that would provide an
instructed service for a fee - the PPCs all insisted in
providing a free service to the landowner and indiscriminately
milking those deemed to be in breach.
Depending on the nature of the parking issues, if you must get
into bed with the devil, some kind of self-ticketing system
would seem to be the least worst solution.
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