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       #Post#: 7800--------------------------------------------------
       Least worst PPC?
   DIR By: guest46
       Date: October 19, 2023, 10:07 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       An apartment I let has a worsening issue with fly parking -
       ironically the nearby GP surgery and Dentist have introduced
       parking controls so guess where the displaced people are
       parking!
       The management company are proposing to use Creative Parking,
       which from some research on 'another' site seem to have morphed
       a couple of times and and associated with CEL?
       I've been 'consulted' - are there any PPCs with even a modicum
       of morality which someone here would be brave enough to suggest
       please?
       #Post#: 7806--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Least worst PPC?
   DIR By: DWMB2
       Date: October 19, 2023, 11:23 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Residential car parks with PPCs on the prowl inevitably lead to
       sharp practice - once the fly-parkers have been deterred, the
       PPCs need to turn to exploiting mistakes by residents in order
       to earn their money.
       There are PPCs that are worse than others (If I had to pick one
       to operate on land I had an interest in, I'd struggle to pick,
       other than to say I'd want a BPA member, as POPLA is far better
       than the IAS), but the contents of the contract between the
       landowner and the PPC is probably more important than which PPC
       it is. We've seen plenty of cases on here and PePiPoo where the
       tail was wagging the dog, with the landowner unable to get
       charges cancelled, for example. In any consultation response,
       you might be keen to recommend that any contracts they sign give
       them good leeway to get charges cancelled.
       #Post#: 7836--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Least worst PPC?
   DIR By: DancingDad
       Date: October 20, 2023, 2:10 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Not a PPC expert by any means and my view that good PPCs are
       hens teeth is not helpful.
       Manual operation not ANPR?
       But on the contract side, not only that landlord can get charges
       cancelled but also the whole contract should it become
       untenable.
       I've seen a few anecdotal stories of places like pubs employing
       PPCs and being stuck with them due to costly cancellation
       clauses
       #Post#: 7882--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Least worst PPC?
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: October 20, 2023, 11:51 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       What's wrong with parking bollards, such as
  HTML https://www.barriersdirect.co.uk/bollards-c1022/parking-bollards-c1223<br
       />?
       They are 100% effective at deterring fly-parking, no litigation
       follows from their use, nobody gets ripped off. Of course
       there's also no private company that can make ongoing profits
       either.
       If the spaces are not assigned, you just need to get a set with
       a universal key that can be given to all residents. It might
       come at an up-front cost, but in the grand scheme of things it's
       quite modest (many councils charge more for an annual permit)
       and it's a one-off, and definitely the more moral solution IMO.
       #Post#: 7905--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Least worst PPC?
   DIR By: DWMB2
       Date: October 20, 2023, 2:59 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
       >
       > It might come at an up-front cost
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Probably why the management company aren't considering it
       #Post#: 7909--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Least worst PPC?
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: October 20, 2023, 5:13 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
       >
       > [quote author=cp8759 link=topic=740.msg7882#msg7882
       date=1697820677]
       > It might come at an up-front cost
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Probably why the management company aren't considering it
       [/quote]
       But the management company isn't in charge, the residents are.
       Whether the residents are aware of this is of course another
       matter.
       #Post#: 7923--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Least worst PPC?
   DIR By: guest46
       Date: October 21, 2023, 1:59 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
       >
       > [quote author=cp8759 link=topic=740.msg7882#msg7882
       date=1697820677]
       > It might come at an up-front cost
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Probably why the management company aren't considering it
       [/quote]
       --- Quote from: cp8759 link ---
       >
       > What's wrong with parking bollards, such as
  HTML https://www.barriersdirect.co.uk/bollards-c1022/parking-bollards-c1223<br
       />?
       >
       > They are 100% effective at deterring fly-parking, no
       litigation follows from their use, nobody gets ripped off. Of
       course there's also no private company that can make ongoing
       profits either.
       >
       > If the spaces are not assigned, you just need to get a set
       with a universal key that can be given to all residents. It
       might come at an up-front cost, but in the grand scheme of
       things it's quite modest (many councils charge more for an
       annual permit) and it's a one-off, and definitely the more moral
       solution IMO.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I wondered the same, but with numerous visitors, carers,
       cleaners, deliveries etc etc it would be impossible to manage
       the key/access arrangements.
       #Post#: 7930--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Least worst PPC?
   DIR By: ivanleo
       Date: October 21, 2023, 4:32 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: M60NJP link ---
       >
       > I wondered the same, but with numerous visitors, carers,
       cleaners, deliveries etc etc it would be impossible to manage
       the key/access arrangements.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       How many visitors' space are there, and how many spaces are for
       residents only?
       #Post#: 7940--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Least worst PPC?
   DIR By: H C Andersen
       Date: October 21, 2023, 5:59 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       The issue doesn't lend itself to a simple answer.
       As you've found out, effective parking controls are essential
       while you have selfish, idle and cheapskate drivers who have no
       regard for other people's property and the direct, and often
       indirect, effects on others of their actions. Ironically, the
       issue of paying for parking has a corollary: what are people
       prepared to pay for protecting their parking rights?
       So a necessary 'evil'?
       DWMB2 put it: but the contents of the contract between the
       landowner and the PPC is probably more important than which PPC
       it is. We've seen plenty of cases on here and PePiPoo where the
       tail was wagging the dog, with the landowner unable to get
       charges cancelled, for example. In any consultation response,
       you might be keen to recommend that any contracts they sign give
       them good leeway to get charges cancelled.
       So..:
       What would be the parameters of the contract e.g. the PPC is
       paid by the residents to protect their interests or you expect
       them to do this FOC etc? How many residents? Over what
       'customer' base would direct contract costs effectively be
       charged? IMO, cancelling parking charges is not your first
       consideration. We're all expectancy theorists(ETs) at heart so,
       would each resident be prepared to pay £X per year to ensure
       their rights are protected or run with the risk that they could
       pay less but with the possibility that their forgetfulness might
       cost them £Y in parking charges?
       Talking of which, the displaced drivers are also ETs, so you
       would have to think about what level of parking charge would
       deter? And not just the charge, it's the likelihood of receiving
       a charge which also feeds into the ET matrix. And what is the
       problem e.g. long or short-term (commuter parking or parking for
       shops) because this as much as anything else sets the scene.
       And you could ask the other sites why they chose who they did,
       why and problems encountered.
       So, the issue isn't defined by 'least worst PPC'.
       #Post#: 7946--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Least worst PPC?
   DIR By: andy_foster
       Date: October 21, 2023, 6:42 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Some years ago, I was invited to the BPA's "!Parking Summit". A
       representative of one of the biggest commercial landowners said
       that his biggest problem with private parking enforcement was
       that he could not find a single company that would provide an
       instructed service for a fee - the PPCs all insisted in
       providing a free service to the landowner and indiscriminately
       milking those deemed to be in breach.
       Depending on the nature of the parking issues, if you must get
       into bed with the devil, some kind of self-ticketing system
       would seem to be the least worst solution.
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