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       #Post#: 82894--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Penalty charge notice for U turn
   DIR By: ss201
       Date: July 27, 2025, 3:09 am
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       Bump for any suggestions, thanks
       #Post#: 82910--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Penalty charge notice for U turn
   DIR By: H C Andersen
       Date: July 27, 2025, 4:56 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       IMO, your grounds are: There was no contravention etc.
       You didn't pass the sign which was the first indication you had
       that a 'U-turn' was not permitted but instead turned round as
       soon as you saw it.
       And see how they respond.
       I assume there isn't any form of warning sign in Wellesley. If
       you're local perhaps you could take some photos and also in
       Cranbrook to show where the prohibition starts.
       #Post#: 82962--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Penalty charge notice for U turn
   DIR By: ss201
       Date: July 27, 2025, 9:19 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thanks, we'll check the area for signage before replying
       #Post#: 88315--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Penalty charge notice for U turn
   DIR By: ss201
       Date: September 4, 2025, 1:52 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I received the rejection from Redbridge but can't seem to find
       the way to attach anymore  :-[ . So I am typing the main part
       where they outline the reasons:
       "The signage complies with the requirements set out in the
       Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions (TSRGD) 2016.
       Although you state that the sign was placed within a puffin
       crossing area, the placement has been reviewed and deemed lawful
       and sufficient to inform drivers of the restriction.
       The prohibition applies to the entire stretch of Cranbrook Road
       where the signs are in effect, not solely after the point at
       which the sign is passed.
       It remains the driver’s responsibility to look out for signage
       whilst driving.
       We have rejected your representations because your vehicle was
       seen performing a prohibited turn.
       You now have the following options:
       Pay the outstanding amount of £80 within 14 days of the date
       this letter was served (the date it was delivered) after this
       point the full charge of £160.00 will become due.
       Or you can appeal to the Environment & Traffic Adjudicators
       (ETA, part of London Tribunals) using the enclosed appeal form.
       This must be done no later than 28 days of this letter being
       served. An Adjudicator, who is independent of the Council, will
       then consider your appeal and make a final decision about
       whether your appeal should be allowed or rejected by the
       Council. Their decision is legally binding on both you and the
       Council."
       Any thoughts?
       #Post#: 88318--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Penalty charge notice for U turn
   DIR By: John U.K.
       Date: September 4, 2025, 2:13 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: ss201 link ---
       >
       > I received the rejection from Redbridge but can't seem to find
       the way to attach anymore  :-[ . So I am typing the main part
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       You have discovered why the use of attachments is not
       recommended.
       The easiest way to upload docs here (unless you have no mobile
       phone camera) is to use yr  phone to photo each page of each
       doc, redacting yr name & address where it occurs, and uploading
       the images to an external site like
  HTML https://ibb.co/
       or imgur
       and copy and post the BBCodes here. I use ibb with no probs.
       (Scroll down past the image to see the BBCode.)
       Your transcription is an example of why transcriptions are
       deprecated - you have a missed a key feature (the date). Please
       post all sides of the rejection, redacting only yr name &
       address, and a copy of yr submission to the Council, so that it
       can be judged how well they considered yr submission.
       #Post#: 88337--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Penalty charge notice for U turn
   DIR By: ss201
       Date: September 4, 2025, 4:37 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: John U.K. link ---
       >
       > [quote author=ss201 link=topic=7384.msg88315#msg88315
       date=1756968748]
       > I received the rejection from Redbridge but can't seem to find
       the way to attach anymore  :-[ . So I am typing the main part
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       You have discovered why the use of attachments is not
       recommended.
       The easiest way to upload docs here (unless you have no mobile
       phone camera) is to use yr  phone to photo each page of each
       doc, redacting yr name & address where it occurs, and uploading
       the images to an external site like
  HTML https://ibb.co/
       or imgur
       and copy and post the BBCodes here. I use ibb with no probs.
       (Scroll down past the image to see the BBCode.)
       Your transcription is an example of why transcriptions are
       deprecated - you have a missed a key feature (the date). Please
       post all sides of the rejection, redacting only yr name &
       address, and a copy of yr submission to the Council, so that it
       can be judged how well they considered yr submission.
       [/quote]
       Thanks for the instructions, here are the bbcodes. Hope it
       works!
  HTML https://ibb.co/gMbXC2GL
  HTML https://ibb.co/tpjnsg1v
  HTML https://ibb.co/cSfcYKNG
       #Post#: 88351--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Penalty charge notice for U turn
   DIR By: John U.K.
       Date: September 4, 2025, 5:48 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       EDIT - UPDATED with remaining pages - page 2 appears to be
       missing.
       You posted the links, but no matter, (you need to scroll down
       slightly further for th BBCodes). For convenience, here are yr
       images:
  HTML https://i.ibb.co/8DnRVCJL/page-1.jpg
  HTML https://ibb.co/gMbXC2GL
       Page 2 is MISSING
       Next Page
  HTML https://i.ibb.co/3mFR31gV/page-2-edited.jpg
  HTML https://ibb.co/KxsKP6TB
  HTML https://i.ibb.co/RkrpjGCx/page-3.jpg
  HTML https://ibb.co/cSfcYKNG
  HTML https://i.ibb.co/8nqXN9kv/page-4.jpg
  HTML https://ibb.co/dsF7jDZC
  HTML https://i.ibb.co/gMbk0Qxk/page-5.jpg
  HTML https://ibb.co/0jpH01xH
  HTML https://i.ibb.co/KcpBbDSs/page-6.jpg
  HTML https://ibb.co/9mkBchS4
       I suspect the 2nd page of the NoR is missing, as the sentence at
       the end of page 1 does not finish. Please supply a link to the
       missing page and also one to the next the right way up and I
       will sort them for you.
       Please could you also post the copy of yr reps.
       #Post#: 88382--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Penalty charge notice for U turn
   DIR By: ss201
       Date: September 4, 2025, 7:26 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thanks for uploading the images. Here are the new links:
  HTML https://ibb.co/KxsKP6TB
  HTML https://ibb.co/dsF7jDZC
  HTML https://ibb.co/0jpH01xH
  HTML https://ibb.co/9mkBchS4
       I have included the form they sent as well. I am afraid I don't
       have a copy of my response, I mentioned what was suggested here
       about there being no U-turn sign before the turn onto the road
       and after the pedestrian crossing which can prevent drivers from
       concentrating on pedestrians. I wish I kept a copy of my text.
       #Post#: 88413--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Penalty charge notice for U turn
   DIR By: H C Andersen
       Date: September 4, 2025, 11:01 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       OP, some time ago I asked whether there were any signs in
       Wellesley warning that drivers were entering a No U-Turn area as
       soon as they joined Cranbrook.
       You've not replied.
       You entered Cranbrook at its junction with Wellesley and
       immediately were within a restricted area i.e it does NOT start
       at the sign in view in the video 'The prohibition applies to the
       entire stretch of Cranbrook Road where the signs are in effect
       not solely after the point at which the sign is passed. It
       remains the drivers responsibility to look out for signage
       whilst driving.'
       So, whether there are signs in Wellesley as you approach
       Cranbrook is important. IMO, you could not compile your most
       persuasive appeal without finding out.
       #Post#: 88422--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Penalty charge notice for U turn
   DIR By: ss201
       Date: September 4, 2025, 11:53 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
       >
       > OP, some time ago I asked whether there were any signs in
       Wellesley warning that drivers were entering a No U-Turn area as
       soon as they joined Cranbrook.
       >
       > You've not replied.
       >
       > You entered Cranbrook at its junction with Wellesley and
       immediately were within a restricted area i.e it does NOT start
       at the sign in view in the video 'The prohibition applies to the
       entire stretch of Cranbrook Road where the signs are in effect
       not solely after the point at which the sign is passed. It
       remains the drivers responsibility to look out for signage
       whilst driving.'
       >
       > So, whether there are signs in Wellesley as you approach
       Cranbrook is important. IMO, you could not compile your most
       persuasive appeal without finding out.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I'm sorry I thought you meant York Road as that's where I
       entered Cranbrook Road, there were no signs on York Road from
       where I took the left turn. I mentioned that in my appeal. I
       actually found the text I wrote in my appeal:
       "There is no warning or 'no U-turn' sign in York Road from where
       I made the turn into Cranbrook road before I made the U turn
       meaning I was unaware of the rule due to the fact the council
       did not place a sign to ensure drivers coming from York road are
       aware of this rule. This is a major flaw,  The first 'no U-turn'
       sign appears after the pedestrian crossing and I turned before
       that ‘no u-turn’ sign. This means by the time when I turned left
       from York road onto cranbrook road and made a U turn , there
       were not any signs informing me of the fact that there are no U
       turns allowed there. A contravention should only committed after
       I have passed the first sign.
       The first ‘no u-turn’ sign is placed within a ‘puffin controlled
       area’ (zig-zag lines). The TSRGD ( TSRGD 2016, reg. 2 and Sch 1)
       prohibits the use of all road signs (with a few exceptions, eg
       no-right-turn) from being placed within zig-zag lines. The
       reason for this is that drivers need to be fully concentrating
       on pedestrians using the crossing. It’s no wonder I missed the
       sign - I was paying careful attention to the pedestrian crossing
       ahead of me.
       There is a 'no U-turn' sign after the turn is made, which
       doesn't warn any driver like me not to make the U-turn before I
       actually made the turn
       I was a resident on mansfield road and I used to make this turn
       everyday of my life  but however since this is a new rule
       introduced in March 2025, there should be more warning and
       signage before drivers like me attempt the U-turn. For this
       reason receiving a penalty for a rule that isn’t made aware to
       drivers coming onto Cranbrook road from York road isn't fair. As
       there are no signs till after the bend on Cranbrook road how was
       I supposed to know that the rule has been introduced? I believe
       this is unfair. In the pictures attached below you can clearly
       see there is no sign from when I turned onto Cranbrook road and
       made the U turn therefore I argue this penalty should be
       waived."
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