DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Private parking tickets
*****************************************************
#Post#: 81876--------------------------------------------------
Drivers received fine but can't find offence
DIR By: Nufc1993
Date: July 21, 2025, 4:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Driver who is the registered keeper entered petrol station with
designated parking for non fuellers (subway etc are in the same
court). Driver was in the vehicle at all times and no evidence
of any other individual provided by company.
Please find attached images below
HTML https://imgur.com/a/L11GPam
#Post#: 81877--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drivers received fine but can't find offence
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: July 21, 2025, 4:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Welcome to FTLA.
To help us provide the best advice, please read the following
thread carefully and provide as much of the information it asks
for as you are able to: READ THIS FIRST - Private Parking
Charges Forum guide
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/read-this-first-private-parking-charges-forum-guide/<br
/>
#Post#: 81883--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drivers received fine but can't find offence
DIR By: Nufc1993
Date: July 21, 2025, 5:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Please find letter received
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 81884--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drivers received fine but can't find offence
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: July 21, 2025, 5:17 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DWMB2 link ---
>
> 3. Post the notice(s) you have received – as well as providing
important context, the notices may contain/omit details that can
be used to help you successfully fight the charge. Upload photos
of any and all notices you have received from the parking
company. You should show us all pages of the notice(s), remove
personal details (name/address, PCN reference number, Vehicle
Registration Mark), but show us all dates and times. Details
that you think are trivial could help you win, so don’t leave
anything out.
>
--- End Quote ---
As above, we need to see the whole notice, with dates and times
etc. Just obscure your name, address, PCN reference # and VRM.
#Post#: 81913--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drivers received fine but can't find offence
DIR By: Nufc1993
Date: July 21, 2025, 7:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi,
I've added the full letter above but will add here
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 81927--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drivers received fine but can't find offence
DIR By: Nufc1993
Date: July 21, 2025, 8:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Apologies and thanks for your patience. Is this sufficient?
There is nothing on the back of the letter.
HTML https://i.imgur.com/p3dhbKZ.jpeg
#Post#: 81936--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drivers received fine but can't find offence
DIR By: b789
Date: July 21, 2025, 9:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hilarious! Not PoFA compliant and no evidence to back up the
alleged contravention! Please get it out of your head that this
is a "fine" or that any "offence" has been committed. If you can
find either of those words in the Notice to Keeper (NtK), I will
personally give you £100 for each occurrence.
The Keeper of the vehicle has received a speculative invoice
from an unregulated private parking firm for an alleged breach
of contract by the driver. They have no idea who the driver is
unless you blab it to them, inadvertently or otherwise. Don't
tell 'em your name Pike!
No appeal, no matter how obvious that the Keeper cannot be
liable, will not succeed. Even the secondary appeal to the IAS
will not work because they are nit truly independent and are
another tentacle of the scam. However, you still have to go
through the motions but this will be a protracted affair and you
will not be paying a penny to these scammers if you follow the
advice.
So, to go through the motions, you first have to appeal, only as
the Keeper. There is no legal obligation on the known keeper
(the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the
identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions
can be made.
The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA which
means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they cannot
transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver to the
known keeper.
Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or remove
anything from it:
--- Quote ---
> I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking
charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I
will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your
client landowner.
>
> As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL
the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper
of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even
substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no
admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions
can be drawn. UPE has relied on contract law allegations of
breach against the driver only.
>
> The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have
been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation
of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable.
UPE have no hope should you be stupid enough to try and
litigate, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of
time and cancel the PCN.
--- End Quote ---
Come back when they reject it for the IAS appeal wording to use.
Oh, and please edit your opening post to remove the blabbing of
the drivers identity! Never EVER, EVER, EVER identify the
driver. Only refer to the driver in the third person. No "I did
this or that", only "the driver did this or that"! A classic
example of how to blab the drivers identity!
#Post#: 81939--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drivers received fine but can't find offence
DIR By: JustLoveCars
Date: July 21, 2025, 9:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Event was 15 May but the NtK is dated 9 July for starters...
The wording is mixed but I guess doesn't overstep the mark
claiming the keeper is liable.
#Post#: 81944--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drivers received fine but can't find offence
DIR By: Nufc1993
Date: July 21, 2025, 9:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: b789 link ---
>
> Hilarious! Not PoFA compliant and no evidence to back up the
alleged contravention! Please get it out of your head that this
is a "fine" or that any "offence" has been committed. If you can
find either of those words in the Notice to Keeper (NtK), I will
personally give you £100 for each occurrence.
>
> The Keeper of the vehicle has received a speculative invoice
from an unregulated private parking firm for an alleged breach
of contract by the driver. They have no idea who the driver is
unless you blab it to them, inadvertently or otherwise. Don't
tell 'em your name Pike!
>
> No appeal, no matter how obvious that the Keeper cannot be
liable, will not succeed. Even the secondary appeal to the IAS
will not work because they are nit truly independent and are
another tentacle of the scam. However, you still have to go
through the motions but this will be a protracted affair and you
will not be paying a penny to these scammers if you follow the
advice.
>
> So, to go through the motions, you first have to appeal, only
as the Keeper. There is no legal obligation on the known keeper
(the recipient of the Notice to Keeper (NtK)) to reveal the
identity of the unknown driver and no inference or assumptions
can be made.
>
> The NtK is not compliant with all the requirements of PoFA
which means that if the unknown driver is not identified, they
cannot transfer liability for the charge from the unknown driver
to the known keeper.
>
> Use the following as your appeal. No need to embellish or
remove anything from it:
>
> [quote]I am the keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your
'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement
and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to
your client landowner.
>
> As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL
the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the keeper
of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even
substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no
admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions
can be drawn. UPE has relied on contract law allegations of
breach against the driver only.
>
> The registered keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have
been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation
of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable.
UPE have no hope should you be stupid enough to try and
litigate, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of
time and cancel the PCN.
--- End Quote ---
Come back when they reject it for the IAS appeal wording to use.
Oh, and please edit your opening post to remove the blabbing of
the drivers identity! Never EVER, EVER, EVER identify the
driver. Only refer to the driver in the third person. No "I did
this or that", only "the driver did this or that"! A classic
example of how to blab the drivers identity!
[/quote]
This is great, thank you so much and will update this once I
receive a response.
#Post#: 81945--------------------------------------------------
Re: Drivers received fine but can't find offence
DIR By: Nufc1993
Date: July 21, 2025, 9:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JustLoveCars link ---
>
> Event was 15 May but the NtK is dated 9 July for starters...
>
> The wording is mixed but I guess doesn't overstep the mark
claiming the keeper is liable.
>
--- End Quote ---
Will the tiemframe of alleged offence and notice be an issue for
them?
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 2
DIR Next Page