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#Post#: 81822--------------------------------------------------
No U Turn - Visibility Distance
DIR By: Gmichaelides
Date: July 20, 2025, 4:06 pm
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Hi all! Looking for some advice. I received this PCN whilst
driving up Boxtree Road and turning left in to High Street. The
'No U Turn' sign is on the corner of the junction and I missed
the sign. Does the minimum visibility of 60m apply here? I don't
feel that the sign was in a position where it would obviously be
seen. Postcode for maps is HA3 6JU.
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 81833--------------------------------------------------
Re: No U Turn - Visibility Distance
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: July 20, 2025, 5:21 pm
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So here: -
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/k2EbMp332hcLmEB39
But in 2018, the No U-Turn sign was further away from the
junction on on the traffic island: -
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/m7DjYfML3QYvHpAs8
So you could argue inadequate signage under Regulation 18 of The
Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and
Wales) Regulations 1996
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18
However, it is extremely unlikely the council will give way and
cancel the PCN, so yoy'd have to take them to London Tribunals,
with the full PCN penalty in play. If you're up for that, go
ahead, but you must first submit representations to the council.
I would suggest your reps point out the disadvantage the
resited sign resullts on motorists turning out of Boxtree Road.
They will reply with the usual FOb-Off letter of rejection.
#Post#: 82002--------------------------------------------------
Re: No U Turn - Visibility Distance
DIR By: Gmichaelides
Date: July 21, 2025, 2:35 pm
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Really appreciate the reply. Good spot on the change of
placement for the sign! Wonder why that was.
Sounds like it's 50 50 then on inadequate signage. Perhaps not
worth the battle.
I did try and check the London Tribunals website for this
particular road, but the search functionality doesn't seem to
work properly.
Assume the 60m minimum visibility distance wouldnt apply here?
#Post#: 82011--------------------------------------------------
Re: No U Turn - Visibility Distance
DIR By: stamfordman
Date: July 21, 2025, 3:43 pm
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Post the video.
#Post#: 82411--------------------------------------------------
Re: No U Turn - Visibility Distance
DIR By: Gmichaelides
Date: July 23, 2025, 3:56 pm
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Video attached. As you can see, by the time I've completed the
turn in to the road, I'm past the sign
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 82412--------------------------------------------------
Re: No U Turn - Visibility Distance
DIR By: Gmichaelides
Date: July 23, 2025, 3:58 pm
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Note that I have just turned left in to the road (checking for
traffic on my right) whilst also having to be cautious of the
zebra crossing.
Hope the video is ok, limited ability on my phone to crop and
convert to gif!
#Post#: 82434--------------------------------------------------
Re: No U Turn - Visibility Distance
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: July 23, 2025, 6:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
So I assume the point you would make if you take the matter to
adjudication, is that the sign is badly place since it was moved
from the centre traffic island. If the sign had been in its old
position, it is very likely you would not have made a U-turn. OK
to go with this, but it's not a slam-dunk matter, because the
council will emphasise that the sign is there and visible even
if you turn left, i.e its not to the right of the T-junction.
#Post#: 82470--------------------------------------------------
Re: No U Turn - Visibility Distance
DIR By: John_S
Date: July 24, 2025, 5:05 am
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The ‘no U-turn’ sign seems to have been placed within a
‘parallel controlled area’ (zig-zag lines). The TSRGD prohibits
the use of all road signs (with a few exceptions, eg
no-right-turn) from being placed within zig-zag lines. The
reason for this is that drivers need to be fully concentrating
on pedestrians and cyclists using the parallel crossing. It’s no
wonder you missed the sign - you were watching out for cyclists.
IMO you could argue the ‘no U-turn’ sign breaches the
regulations in its current position. The sign should have been
placed before the zig-zags and ideally on both sides of the
road.
TSRGD reg.2 Sch 1 refers.
PS - there’s also the minor issue of non-compliant ‘end’ signs
further down the road (unless they’ve been changed since Sept
2024).
#Post#: 102119--------------------------------------------------
Re: No U Turn - Visibility Distance
DIR By: Shah420
Date: December 12, 2025, 3:21 am
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Was there any final outcome on this as I had a similar ticket at
the same place and curious to know what happened before starting
another post.
#Post#: 102146--------------------------------------------------
Re: No U Turn - Visibility Distance
DIR By: jfollows
Date: December 12, 2025, 5:59 am
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The original poster has not been back since 24 July so you
should start your own thread.
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