URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       FreeTrafficLegalAdvice
  HTML https://ftla.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so ...
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 81768--------------------------------------------------
       Re: notice to owner (ealing)
   DIR By: Enceladus
       Date: July 20, 2025, 7:32 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I only see one NTO. You said there were two in your opening
       post.
       The visible NTO has the information on the top right faded out
       and largely illegible, did you do that? I assume so, it is only
       required to redact or obscure your name and address, please
       leave everything else visible. Please rectify and repost. Both
       NTOs please.
       The NTO that has been posted up refers to an alleged
       contravention on the 14th of June 2025. Is the NTO dated the
       10/07/2025? If it is then it seems to have been issued
       prematurely. Where an on-site PCN has been served an NTO can
       only be issued and posted once the 28 day relevant period to pay
       or appeal has expired. In this case the 28 day relevant period
       expired on the 11/07/2025.
       14/06/2025 = Sat = Date of PCN and day 1 of 14/28 day relevant
       periods
       27/06/2025 = Fri = day 14 of relevant period and last day to pay
       at discount
       10/07/2025 = Thu = day 27 of 28 day relevant period and date of
       issue of NTO
       11/07/2025 = Fri = day 28 of relevant period and last day to pay
       or serve informal representation
       12/07/2025 = Sat = 1st possible day to issue and post an NTO
       A procedural impropriety has occurred. The NTO is therefore void
       and unenforceable, or have I got the dates wrong?
       And what is the date of issue of the NTO for the 13th June 2025
       PCN?
       #Post#: 81797--------------------------------------------------
       Re: notice to owner (ealing)
   DIR By: Archie
       Date: July 20, 2025, 1:48 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
  HTML https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME144C82<br
       />
  HTML https://www.imagebam.com/view/ME144C84
       
       #Post#: 81802--------------------------------------------------
       Re: notice to owner (ealing)
   DIR By: Archie
       Date: July 20, 2025, 2:29 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I have reposted and should now be legible, date of issue for
       both were 16/07/25.
       The first i ever knew of this vehicle was the 28/06/25 as per my
       initial post,it wasnt owned by me nor had anything to do with me
       prior and i sent the V5 of with the date i purchased it, I taxed
       it online and have had confirmation of the D.D
       and I have the V5 with my details and date of aquisition
       30/06/25 all appear correct.
       thanks for taking the time to help
       #Post#: 81808--------------------------------------------------
       Re: notice to owner (ealing)
   DIR By: H C Andersen
       Date: July 20, 2025, 3:04 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Rather like Enceladus, I had to squint to see the date of issue.
       OP, this isn't going away unless you can produce proof as to why
       you may not be considered to be the person liable.  In
       particular, will you pl address the issue of why DVLA have your
       detsils as the registered keeper on the relevant date.
       #Post#: 81818--------------------------------------------------
       Re: notice to owner (ealing)
   DIR By: Enceladus
       Date: July 20, 2025, 3:43 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Archie link ---
       >
       >
       > ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
       > On a side note, some time between january and my purchase on
       30th June this vehicle must have incured a ULEZ charge ?
       > and as i dont know the rules around this, are vehicles charged
       for every day they are parked within the zone on a public road
       or only when they move within this zone ?
       >
       > ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
       >
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       OK forget the premature NTO possibility, I can now see the date
       of the NTO is the 16th July, not the 10th.
       We still need to see the NTO for the 13th June PCN?
       The car would only have incurred a ULEZ charge on days it had
       been used (moving) within the ULEZ zone, assuming it had passed
       / triggered an enforcement camera. If it has been parked up
       legally and not moved then no ULEZ charge or other charges would
       have been incurred.
       What makes you think there must have been a ULEZ charge prior to
       purchase?
       If the intermediate owner, somebody apparently not registered
       with the DVLA, has been using the car within Greater London,
       then it wouldn't surprise me me if there are multiple PCNs
       outstanding for various infringements. Of course most of these
       should/would have gone to the person named on the V5c that you
       had. At least until he/she informed the DVLA that they were no
       longer the owner.
       I feel inclined to put the onus on Ealing to explain why they
       have served NTOs on you in relation to alleged contraventions
       that occurred before you became the RK. So perhaps keep it
       simple and don't get into a convoluted history. Save that for
       the Adjudicator.
       Something like:
       Re: PCN xyz111 and xyz222
       VRM ABC123
       I was not the owner of this vehicle on the dates of these
       contraventions.
       I purchased the car on the 30th June 2025.
       The DVLA record confirms that I acquired the car on the 30th
       June 2025.
       Attached is a copy of the latest V5c registration document
       confirming that I acquired the car on the 30th June 2025.
       Clearly I cannot be held responsible for any parking
       contraventions that occurred before I acquired the car.
       I can only assume that some error has occurred within your
       Penalty Charge Notice processing systems and that these Notices
       to Owner were served on me by mistake.
       Please cancel these Notices to Owner.
       I look forward to your confirmation of cancellations and that
       these matters are now closed.
       Yours
       #Post#: 81854--------------------------------------------------
       Re: notice to owner (ealing)
   DIR By: Archie
       Date: July 21, 2025, 1:50 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Thank you will post as above, should I send hard copy and
       electronic ?
       Thanks Archie
       #Post#: 81861--------------------------------------------------
       Re: notice to owner (ealing)
   DIR By: H C Andersen
       Date: July 21, 2025, 2:35 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Could someone square this circle pl:
       If 'The DVLA record confirms that I acquired the car on the 30th
       June 2025.' then why/how was the council given your details by
       DVLA as being the RK on the date of the contravention?
       #Post#: 81871--------------------------------------------------
       Re: notice to owner (ealing)
   DIR By: Enceladus
       Date: July 21, 2025, 4:09 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: H C Andersen link ---
       >
       > Could someone square this circle pl:
       >
       > If 'The DVLA record confirms that I acquired the car on the
       30th June 2025.' then why/how was the council given your details
       by DVLA as being the RK on the date of the contravention?
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Who knows? Let Ealing enlighten us.
       I can imagine how it might have happened, but thus far there is
       no firm evidence. And there may never be.
       On the other hand the OP has a V5c issued on the 10th July that
       says he acquired the vehicle on the 30th June and that is firm
       evidence. So let Ealing refute it if they can.
       #Post#: 81879--------------------------------------------------
       Re: notice to owner (ealing)
   DIR By: H C Andersen
       Date: July 21, 2025, 5:06 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       If the council were provided with the OP's details by DVLA as
       being the registered keeper on the relevant date then IMO the
       burden is the OP's not the council's.
       Acquiring a vehicle and being the registered keeper are not
       necessarily related. A person could be the RK but not own a
       vehicle(V5C is not a certificate of ownership) and vice-versa.
       #Post#: 81907--------------------------------------------------
       Re: notice to owner (ealing)
   DIR By: Enceladus
       Date: July 21, 2025, 6:50 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Archie link ---
       >
       > Thank you will post as above, should I send hard copy and
       electronic ?
       > Thanks Archie
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Use the "Make a Challenge/Representation option on the online
       form on the Ealing website to submit. Once for each PCN although
       you could x-ref both PCNs to each other in the text of the
       challenges.
       Take screen prints of what you submit. The entire pages, so
       scroll down if needs be. And don't forget to upload a PDF scan
       or JPEG photos of the new V5c.
       I don't know about Ealing in particular but I would expect that
       you should get emailed acknowledgements within minutes.
       So you shouldn't need to submit hard copies.
       @ Archie
       I also suggest that you email a Subject Access Request to the
       DVLA
  HTML https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/62692f63d3bf7f0e7d5b3dc6/make-a-subject-access-request-to-dvla-form-mis1065_270422.pdf.<br
       />Fill in the form and then attach to an email to the address
       provided. See the instructions at the bottom of the form.
       Ask the DVLA for copies of any requests made for the Registered
       Keeper's details together with the dates, times and means by
       which they were received.
       And ask for copies of the responses the DVLA supplied and their
       dates, times and means of transmission.
       I doubt if they'll give you anything in respect of dates prior
       to the 30th June 2025. But let's see what you get back.
       *****************************************************
       Page 2 of 3
   DIR Previous Page
   DIR Next Page