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#Post#: 81762--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd /
Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
DIR By: roythebus
Date: July 20, 2025, 6:33 am
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There is indeed a yellow sign on the bus stop pole that says no
stopping except buses. However, if this gets as far as the
adjudicator, if the council fails to enclose a photo of that
sign, the case could be won on that matter. But as Balgores Road
doesn't seem to exist....
#Post#: 82257--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd /
Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
DIR By: ynx
Date: July 23, 2025, 2:10 am
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I have drafted the following representation. Please let me know
if there's anything I should add, remove, or change, I'm still
very much new to all this. Many thanks for everyone's help!
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Dear Havering
Ref: PCN VRM
I am writing to make this formal representation against the said
PCN. I contend that the PCN should be cancelled on the following
grounds:
(1) The Penalty Charge Notice was served on the 30th day
following the alleged contravention.
- Date of the alleged contravention: 16 June 2025
- Date of issue: Fri, 11 July 2025
- Deemed date of service: Tue, 15 July 2025
- Elapsed period: 30 days.
According to paragraph (6) of Regulation 10 of The Civil
Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions Regulations 2022, an
enforcement authority must serve a PCN within "28-day period"
beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention
occurred. Serving the PCN on the 30th day falls outside this
statutory timeframe, rendering the PCN invalid.
(2) The location "Balgores Rd" specified in the PCN does not
exist or is incorrectly named within the geographical area of
the alleged contravention. A PCN must accurately specify the
location where the contravention is alleged to have occurred. I
deny that I stopped at the location specified in the PCN at the
time and date of the alleged contravention. The inaccuracy of
the location detail makes the PCN fundamentally flawed and
unenforceable.
(3) The alleged contravention did not occur. The photographic or
other evidence provided by the Council does not clearly show the
presence of the "relevant upright sign" as specified in Part 6
of Schedule 7 of The Traffic Signs Regulations and General
Directions 2016. Without clear evidence of the prescribed
signage being present and visible at the time of the alleged
contravention, the contravention cannot be proven.
Therefore, I respectfully request that you cancel the PCN
forthwith.
Yours faithfully
#Post#: 82333--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd /
Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: July 23, 2025, 9:12 am
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I like it.
#Post#: 82414--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd /
Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
DIR By: ynx
Date: July 23, 2025, 4:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thank you, I’ll be submitting it tomorrow and I’ll report back
with the results once they respond.
#Post#: 82457--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd /
Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
DIR By: ynx
Date: July 24, 2025, 3:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi Hippocrates, just saw your advice to keep the legalese to a
minimum on another thread
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/havering-pcn-31j-main-roadupper-brentwood-road-rm2/msg82403/#msg82403<br
/>where Havering served the PCN after the 28-day limit. I
commented there to link the two, in case that's useful, but
didn't really want to discuss my situation on someone else's
thread, so I'm going to do so here: should I do the same and
remove the references to the legislation from my representation
draft? I definitely don't want to be educating the council if I
don't have to. Maybe something like this? Should I remove
anything else?
---------------------------------------------------------
Dear Havering
Ref: PCN VRM
I am writing to make this formal representation against the said
PCN. I contend that the PCN should be cancelled on the following
grounds:
(1) The Penalty Charge Notice was served on the 30th day
following the alleged contravention.
- Date of the alleged contravention: 16 June 2025
- Date of issue: Fri, 11 July 2025
- Deemed date of service: Tue, 15 July 2025
- Elapsed period: 30 days.
According to paragraph (6) of Regulation 10 of The Civil
Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions Regulations 2022, an
enforcement authority must serve a PCN within "28-day period"
beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention
occurred. Serving the PCN on the 30th day falls outside this
statutory timeframe, rendering the PCN invalid.
(2) The location "Balgores Rd" specified in the PCN does not
exist or is incorrectly named within the geographical area of
the alleged contravention. A PCN must accurately specify the
location where the contravention is alleged to have occurred. I
deny that I stopped at the location specified in the PCN at the
time and date of the alleged contravention. The inaccuracy of
the location detail makes the PCN fundamentally flawed and
unenforceable.
(3) The alleged contravention did not occur. The photographic or
other evidence provided by the Council does not clearly show the
presence of the "relevant upright sign" as specified in Part 6
of Schedule 7 of The Traffic Signs Regulations and General
Directions 2016. Without clear evidence of the prescribed
signage being present and visible at the time of the alleged
contravention, the contravention cannot be proven.
Therefore, I respectfully request that you cancel the PCN
forthwith.
Yours faithfully
#Post#: 82528--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd /
Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
DIR By: Hippocrates
Date: July 24, 2025, 10:55 am
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First one is ok. Right legislation.
#Post#: 94299--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd /
Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
DIR By: ynx
Date: October 16, 2025, 6:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
As expected, Havering rejected my representation:
-
HTML https://i.ibb.co/XZThhHSq/rejection1.jpg
-
HTML https://i.ibb.co/TxWgDfMn/rejection2.jpg
They didn't even bother to pretend that it's anything other than
an unscrupulous money grab. They blatantly ignored all my
grounds, just vaguely mentioned something about the highway
code, and ignored any legislation. They didn't bother addressing
the late service, the non-existent location (which they even
mentioned twice more in the rejection letter), or providing any
evidence of the required signage. I'd be livid if I didn't
already expect this.
On top of that, the rejection was (deemed) served on 7 Oct 2025
(although actually received on the 8th), so almost two and a
half months (75 days) after the representations. I'm not sure I
understand the legislation correctly, but I was under the
impression that they have 56 days to reject the representations.
Did I misunderstand this?
(
HTML https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/576/regulation/6)
Either way, I guess it's tribunals time, as they didn't even
re-offer the discount. I have never had PCN taken this far, so
I'd appreciate any advice on what to do next from the veterans
of this forum.
Many thanks in advance!
#Post#: 94312--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd /
Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 16, 2025, 7:49 am
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The 56 days only applies to responses to formal reps against a
PCN served under the Traffic Management Act 2004.
#Post#: 95681--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd /
Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
DIR By: ynx
Date: October 26, 2025, 5:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the explanation [member=12]Incandescent[/member], I
get confused by all the different rules.
I'm about to submit my appeal to the London Tribunals; should I
just copy/paste my original representation, or add anything
else?
#Post#: 95684--------------------------------------------------
Re: Havering, code 47J stopped on bus stop, Station Rd /
Balgores Rd RM2 (notice served late?)
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 26, 2025, 5:52 pm
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--- Quote from: ynx link ---
>
> Thanks for the explanation [member=12]Incandescent[/member], I
get confused by all the different rules.
>
> I'm about to submit my appeal to the London Tribunals; should
I just copy/paste my original representation, or add anything
else?
>
--- End Quote ---
No, you need to update it to add paragraphs regarding the very
late response to your reps, (75 days), point out that 56 days is
the limit in the Traffic Management Act, and you consider that
the earlier Act under which your PCN was served, although having
no formal limit, they do have a common law duty to act fairly
and you consider 75 days places you at a disadvantage in being
able to remember the detail of the day in question.
In addition, point out that although they state they have
considered your representations, none of the points made within
it get any mention at all or any text refuting them.
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