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#Post#: 81084--------------------------------------------------
TFL, code 31 box junction, Great West Rd/Windmill Rd
DIR By: THEgaDJet
Date: July 15, 2025, 8:19 am
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I was coming out of Windmill Road, heading South after the
traffic lights turned green. To turn right onto the A4 you have
to drive over one box junction on the East bound carriageway to
get to the middle where you can then wait and turn right onto
the West bound carriage way (via another box junction).
The car in front of me was also turning right so I slowed to
give it some space with my back wheels in the first box. The bus
coming the other way and the cars behind the bus then blocked
the West bound right turn meaning. I could have pulled further
forward, right up against the car in front, but didn't feel it
was necessary - there was space as can be seen in the picture.
The car in front also could have pulled further forward, into
the West bound box junction, as you are allowed to enter a box
junction when turning right.
My understanding is that it is OK to enter a box junction to
turn right, which is what I was doing. It is complicated by the
fact that there are two that you have to drive through with a
break in the middle. If it were a single box, I would be fine to
enter to turn right. I also feel the timing of the image is
misleading - the bus was there at 19:37:53, it is gone 4 seconds
later and the car in front of me is just about to turn right.
The white van behind me has caused the issue as the Audi cannot
turn right Eastbound, which prevents us from turning right
Westbound.
Street view:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/MHgkFr1uRegYN1T36
HTML https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/view-pcn-details?pcnId=GX27135721&vrm=MT65TWD&journey=View&skippedIssuedPage=true
PCN: GX27135721
Number plate: MT65TWD
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 82176--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, code 31 box junction, Great West Rd/Windmill Rd
DIR By: beedmo
Date: July 22, 2025, 12:45 pm
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I think you're stuck on this one as its two yellow boxes. The
first yellow box the only exits are turning left and forward,
you did the latter. It's the second yellow box you would have
been ok to enter as thats the one you are turning right in.
I do notice they haven't provided video of you stopping but I'm
sure being in possesion of this would help your case - unless
you hadn't stopped and were moving slowly.
A fair amount of time has passed so, I'm sure you might want to
keep that lower fine of £80 rather than try and go on a wild
goose chase that has no chance.
#Post#: 82182--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, code 31 box junction, Great West Rd/Windmill Rd
DIR By: MrChips
Date: July 22, 2025, 1:04 pm
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Without the video footage it's hard to give any advice. The
photos in the PCN are too grainy.
If you genuinely had space to move forward and clear the box
then no contravention has occurred and you can challenge on that
basis (it's only a contravention if you get blocked in the box
due to a stationary vehicle).
I would normally recommend calling TFL to request the video
footage (and asking them to put the clock on hold while it
wait). However I did spot one of the forum experts (cp8759)
advise against this recently although I didn't see why. Perhaps
[member=2249]stamfordman[/member] could confirm?
We've also seen at least one case win on appeal on the basis TFL
make it extremely difficult to view the video evidence which is
prejudicial to any appeal. Even if they do send it, you then
have to find a dvd player to view it on!
#Post#: 84523--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, code 31 box junction, Great West Rd/Windmill Rd
DIR By: twigtwig
Date: August 6, 2025, 11:07 pm
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Hi - I have had a ticket here too and went to the adjudicator on
similar grounds to yourself.
I was in the box for 4 seconds, as the car infront slammed on,
and caused me to stop in the box.
There are multiple cases on the Adjudicator website too which
have all failed on similar grounds.
You are out of luck - there are two seperate yellow boxes - so
turning right does not apply.
You would have a defence if it was one single yellow box. I
would suggest paying the £80 while in the discount period and
chalking it up to experience.
In this case, it was a lesson bought that you must wait until
the junction is entirely clear before even thinking about
entering that junction. It slows traffic flow, but there we are.
#Post#: 90512--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, code 31 box junction, Great West Rd/Windmill Rd
DIR By: THEgaDJet
Date: September 18, 2025, 8:08 am
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Just wanted to add, in case anyone else sees this post, that I
have successfully had the PCN cancelled without having to pay
anything.
As it is TFL, I also posted in the TFL specific part of this
forum and received specific advice.
If you are in a similar situation, post there instead of this
main thread.
#Post#: 102476--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, code 31 box junction, Great West Rd/Windmill Rd
DIR By: StuckInAPeugeot
Date: December 15, 2025, 5:24 am
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--- Quote from: THEgaDJet link ---
>
> Just wanted to add, in case anyone else sees this post, that I
have successfully had the PCN cancelled without having to pay
anything.
>
> As it is TFL, I also posted in the TFL specific part of this
forum and received specific advice.
>
> If you are in a similar situation, post there instead of this
main thread.
>
--- End Quote ---
Can I ask how you did this? I got stuck there momentarily behind
a white van and I'm dreading the PCN.
#Post#: 102489--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, code 31 box junction, Great West Rd/Windmill Rd
DIR By: THEgaDJet
Date: December 15, 2025, 6:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: StuckInAPeugeot link ---
>
> [quote author=THEgaDJet link=topic=7270.msg90512#msg90512
date=1758200881]
> Just wanted to add, in case anyone else sees this post, that I
have successfully had the PCN cancelled without having to pay
anything.
>
> As it is TFL, I also posted in the TFL specific part of this
forum and received specific advice.
>
> If you are in a similar situation, post there instead of this
main thread.
>
--- End Quote ---
Can I ask how you did this? I got stuck there momentarily behind
a white van and I'm dreading the PCN.
[/quote]
If you go to this section of the forum here
HTML https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/tfl-red-route-postal-pcns/<br
/>you'll find some info on what to do and who to contact
specifically.
You do need to wait to receive the PCN and follow some specific
instructions, but it was worth it!
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