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#Post#: 7509--------------------------------------------------
Actual Court Papers Received
DIR By: dave-o
Date: October 16, 2023, 5:21 am
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Hi, first time poster on FTLA, long time user of Pepipoo (from
the old days).
Here's another first for me - actually receiving court papers
from a PPC!
Here is the cover page. The rest is template copy. I
understand that the blurb is usually included when assessing a
PCN/NTO but in this case we're not going to be pulling apart the
court's small print, right?
HTML https://i.ibb.co/KNzQLf1/First-Court-Papers.jpg
I will of course go into the details, but I understand at this
point that I should just make a placeholder response to the
letter, and perhaps also change it to a local court, is this
right?
Thank you for the advice, it's appreciated.
#Post#: 7511--------------------------------------------------
Re: Actual Court Papers Received
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: October 16, 2023, 5:42 am
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--- Quote from: dave-o link ---
>
> long time user of Pepipoo (from the old days).
>
--- End Quote ---
Thought the name looked familiar (although I've not personally
been on PePiPoo anywhere near long enough to count as 'from the
old days').
--- Quote from: dave-o link ---
>
> I understand that the blurb is usually included when assessing
a PCN/NTO but in this case we're not going to be pulling apart
the court's small print, right?
--- End Quote ---
Indeed - what matters is the detail of the claim against you.
If this is your first time dealing with a court claim from a PPC
then a good starting point is this Newbies thread on the MSE
forum -
HTML https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64350585/#Comment_64350585
HTML https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64350585/#Comment_64350585<br
/>- it provides an outline of the court process, and tips for
dealing with each stage. The first stage is to acknowledge the
claim online using the MCOL system (the MSE thread includes
advice on doing this), which will then give you some time to
compile your defence.
Then if you're looking for advice on the merits of the case
itself and your potential defence we'll of course need some
details as you'll be aware. Ideally include:
- A copy of the initial PCN, any appeal(s) submitted, and the
response(s) from First Parking
- Details of the circumstances that led to the charge being
issued, and any anticipated defences you're planning to use
[li]If you're going to be challenging the quality or contents of
the signage, then images of this will be needed[/li}
#Post#: 7512--------------------------------------------------
Re: Actual Court Papers Received
DIR By: dave-o
Date: October 16, 2023, 6:05 am
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Thanks, I have submitted a SAR and will go through the MCOL
process presently. Just to check; when is the point at which I
can apply to have it transferred to a local court? I don't want
to miss this opportunity as this seems like quite a powerful
card to play.
#Post#: 7514--------------------------------------------------
Re: Actual Court Papers Received
DIR By: DWMB2
Date: October 16, 2023, 6:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: dave-o link ---
>
> Just to check; when is the point at which I can apply to have
it transferred to a local court?
>
--- End Quote ---
You do this at the Directions Questionnaire stage, where you
fill in an N180 Form
HTML https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-n180-directions-questionnaire-small-claims-track,<br
/>which happens after your defence is submitted - I believe it
is
discussed somewhere in the post I linked to from the MSE forum.
#Post#: 7523--------------------------------------------------
Re: Actual Court Papers Received
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 16, 2023, 7:16 am
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I don't want to miss this opportunity as this seems like quite
a powerful card to play.
In what way? Their evidence would be submitted in writing and
the claimant won't be represented wherever the case is heard.
Getting to the court on time booted and suited makes not a jot
of difference to outcomes IMO, it's evidence which decides the
matter. And playing silly b*****s with time frames and leaving
submissions until the last minute are tactics more likely to
trip up the unwary respondent than a firm like DCB Legal. Where,
as regards actions which you're required to take, one time frame
is contingent upon another e.g. submitting a defence being
contingent upon acknowledging service etc. then if one wants to
maximise the time to assemble evidence it makes sense to delay
until near a time limit, but knowing why you're doing something
and whether it offers you any advantage is necessary. But this
is not council procedures and you're not going to time-out or
trip up anyone other than possibly yourself.
I must ask: why have you submitted a SAR now? The obvious answer
would be that you did not do this at the Letter of Claim stage.
Which begs the question why?
This isn't a game and if all you've done to date is to ignore
the creditor and the creditor's legal reps then your actions are
likely to be seen as unreasonable by the court.
#Post#: 7535--------------------------------------------------
Re: Actual Court Papers Received
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: October 16, 2023, 9:35 am
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Telling an OP that they should have done something earlier is
not helpful. The purpose of the site is to assist the OP going
forward, not to to castigate them for things already done.
#Post#: 7622--------------------------------------------------
Re: Actual Court Papers Received
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 17, 2023, 10:16 am
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My comments should be seen in the context of the OP's statement:
I don't want to miss this opportunity as this seems like quite a
powerful card to play.
I think my warning is apposite. This is not a game, cards or
otherwise.
In addition, they should be aware - as is often said on this
forum - that unreasonable behaviour could lead to higher than
normal costs being awarded against them. So far the OP would
seem to fall into this category because they have ignored all
notices and the letter of claim. They should be aware how many
debits they've already clocked up as I hope this would lead them
to not play brinkmanship with procedure because if they come
unstuck the results could be costly.
#Post#: 8138--------------------------------------------------
Re: Actual Court Papers Received
DIR By: dave-o
Date: October 23, 2023, 3:46 am
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I'm not sure what you're on about there, Mr. Andersen. You
always seem to have something contrary and unhelpful to say, and
in this case unwarranted assumptions to make. The forum may
change but the troll stays the same. The fact is I have
responded to every piece of literature they have sent me,
including their informal appeal, POPLA and each one of the "debt
collector" letters. It's not a game isn't it? In this case why
do they employ bogus debt collectors who purposely misrepresent
the legal process?
Anyway, I will compile all of the literature from the start.
This may take up a few posts as there is a lot of it. First
contact to follow shortly.
#Post#: 8146--------------------------------------------------
Re: Actual Court Papers Received
DIR By: dave-o
Date: October 23, 2023, 4:18 am
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CONTACT 1
The first contact was a NTK as no PCN was ever found on the car.
Here is the NTK:
HTML https://i.ibb.co/0m714Mc/First-PCN1.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/0cLbLKN/First-PCN2.jpg
The circumstances:
This was a place of work. The driver was employed at this
university at the time, and had permission to park. Permission
was granted by means of the car reg being on a database, which
it was at the time. However, the standard parking places were
all full, and the employer had given permission to park outside
standard parking places in this situation. Many employees did
this all the time, as parking was often tight. However this was
the first time a PPC had actually ticketed them, which surprised
everyone. The ticket it appears is for causing an obstruction.
I did request photos etc. and made a POPLA appeal, which was not
accepted. I will post all of this up later today.
Thanks
*EDIT* In the original thread, it was pointed out that the
dates are useful. The dates from the top of the document are:
Date of event: 21/11/2022 10:50
Date issued: 21/12/2022 12:10
#Post#: 8155--------------------------------------------------
Re: Actual Court Papers Received
DIR By: dave-o
Date: October 23, 2023, 6:13 am
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I imagine this is comparatively meaningless, but for the sake of
completeness, here are the details of the informal appeal.
On the PPC's website, here is the main pic shown on their
portal. I didn't capture all of them (thumbnails on the left)
but none of them showed a PCN attached, which is interesting
seeing as there was not one there when the driver arrived.
HTML https://i.ibb.co/RpkN575/Appeal-Picsredacted.jpg
Here is the appeal as submitted:
HTML https://i.ibb.co/7g1DFrr/appealdeets.jpg
And the rejection:
HTML https://i.ibb.co/HGh4VhF/Informal-Reply1.jpg
HTML https://i.ibb.co/nw76Jym/Informal-Reply2.jpg
*EDIT*
I'd also like to draw people's attentions to the date of the
rejection (09/01/23) and the closing date offered for the
reduced sum (10/01/23). Not sure if this is any use?
Next up, the POPLA appeal...
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