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#Post#: 7488--------------------------------------------------
TFL, Code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction, Beckton
roundabout/A406/A13, Yellow Box
DIR By: chand
Date: October 15, 2023, 3:05 pm
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Hi,
I received the attached PCN for “Entering and stopping in a box
junction when prohibited” from TFL. By looking at the video
there was no stationary vehicle in front on entry into the
yellow box. When I reached the other end of the box slowed
down/stopped ( 3 Secs ) as I thought exited the box. But
realized that I have to go forward a bit more to clear the box.
So moved a bit and cleared the yellow box.
I don’t seem to obstruct any vehicle coming from any directions.
So to summary my points on appeal could be
1)
the box on my path.
2)
then exited the box
3)
from any other directions.
Experts in the group please advise on the correct points and
wording to appeal. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Link to video :
HTML https://drive.google.com/file/d/1W1tFy_iyKRyUy5uQ8C8QJtI6KlMhkyad/view?usp=sharing
link to googleMap:
HTML https://maps.app.goo.gl/df8mSSjTgpMcSCXz6
[attachment deleted by admin]
#Post#: 7493--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, Code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction,
Beckton roundabout/A406/A13, Yellow Box
DIR By: DancingDad
Date: October 15, 2023, 5:06 pm
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You'll need to allow access to the Video on google drive
#Post#: 7498--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, Code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction,
Beckton roundabout/A406/A13, Yellow Box
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 15, 2023, 6:27 pm
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+1
The video is their sole evidence, so we must see it.
#Post#: 7502--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, Code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction,
Beckton roundabout/A406/A13, Yellow Box
DIR By: chand
Date: October 16, 2023, 4:20 am
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Access given to all to view that video. Sorry, didn't realize it
was restricted.
#Post#: 7505--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, Code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction,
Beckton roundabout/A406/A13, Yellow Box
DIR By: fraser.mitchell
Date: October 16, 2023, 4:55 am
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Well, having now looked at the video, it is clear that the blue
car on your left was in contravention, but for yourself, I'd say
there was no contravention. You did not have to stop in the box
due to the presence of stationary vehicles from what I see, as
there was room beside the red car. You say you thought you had
cleared the box, and the video shows you stopping partly in it
then moving forward when you realised you were not all out of it
so confirms your story. This is not an offence. Of course,
inevitably, with the thousands of pounds the council well be
earning from this YBJ, you'll have to take them to London
Tribunals. This means risking the full PCN penalty, the discount
option is not available there.
BTW you need to alter your view on what YBJs involve for the
motorist or you'll get loads more PCNs.
--- Quote ---
> 1) At the point of entry no other stationary vehicle was
inside the box on my path.
--- End Quote ---
Any stationary vehicle on the other side of the box that forces
you to stop inside it, will get you a PCN too.
#Post#: 7507--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, Code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction,
Beckton roundabout/A406/A13, Yellow Box
DIR By: MrChips
Date: October 16, 2023, 5:05 am
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Also, (in general) a car can be moving in front of you when you
enter but stationary by the time you reach the other side. If
that car then blocks you in the box, that's also a PCN. Hence
the Highway Code guidance that there should be a vacant exit on
the other side of the box before you enter. The HC actually
goes further than this and says you must have a clear exit, but
that's not strictly true.
In your actual case, I'd tend to agree that this one should be
appealable as you seem to stop in the box when there's actually
no need to and you could have manoeuvred forward to fully exit
if you had been minded to. Some adjudicators seem to be a bit
harsh on this sort of thing so I wouldn't say this is a 100%
guaranteed win but I'd put your odds definitely in excess of
50%. It would definitely work in your favour if you can
demonstrate you stopped where you did not because of the car in
front but because of some other reason, e.g. thinking you'd
already cleared the box.
#Post#: 7510--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, Code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction,
Beckton roundabout/A406/A13, Yellow Box
DIR By: H C Andersen
Date: October 16, 2023, 5:37 am
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You've not said which car's yours and we haven't seen the PCN
either, pl post.
Also:
When I reached the other end of the box slowed down/stopped ( 3
Secs ) as I thought exited the box. But realized that I have to
go forward a bit more to clear the box. So moved a bit and
cleared the yellow box.
If yours is the middle car of the three, you didn't clear the
box until the traffic was moving.
You must have seen the video numerous times now, so how does
what actually happened tie-in with what you thought at the time?
'....has to stop in the junction due to the presence of
stationary vehicles' is the key prohibition. As regards the
adjudicator- I think we can assume TfL would reject any reps -
you would have to convince them that you:
1. Were not stopped in the junction for more than what would be
classed as a de minimis period; and/or
2. Were not stopped due to the presence of stationary vehicles.
An adjudicator is not Mr Spock and cannot read minds i.e. cannot
know what thought process caused you to stop. They can ask you
and then use their eyes and experience by looking at the video.
Coulda, woulda, shoulda.
IMO, for an experienced driver there wasn't room to exit when
you stopped. Cars are not sardines, although some do resemble
cans. Just because your car (if it's the one we think) could
have been shoe-horned into a gap IMO this would have been
inconsiderate at best and dangerous at worst because you could
see the other car's intended direction of travel i.e. across
your bows. You had no choice but to cede the carriageway to them
which is why you stopped.
But you could advance an alternative at adjudication.
#Post#: 7589--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, Code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction,
Beckton roundabout/A406/A13, Yellow Box
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: October 16, 2023, 6:46 pm
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This is an easy appeal, as the video shows no contravention.
Send this for now:
[indent]
Dear Transport for London,
I challenge liability for PCN GX10193723 on the basis that the
alleged contravention did not occur. This is because while my
vehicle did stop within the yellow box markings, that stop was
not caused by the presence of stationary vehicles, as the video
clearly shows that there is ample space ahead of my vehicle
outside of the box.
It follows that the PCN must be cancelled.
Yours faithfully,
[/indent]
Send that online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation
screen, I'll be happy to represent you at the tribunal if they
reject.
#Post#: 7608--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, Code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction,
Beckton roundabout/A406/A13, Yellow Box
DIR By: chand
Date: October 17, 2023, 5:38 am
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Thanks for all your suggestions.
PCN posted already. My car is one in the middle of the 3 cars
going from south to north.
#Post#: 7648--------------------------------------------------
Re: TFL, Code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction,
Beckton roundabout/A406/A13, Yellow Box
DIR By: ivanleo
Date: October 17, 2023, 2:57 pm
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Have you sent the representation I drafted for you?
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