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#Post#: 79624--------------------------------------------------
Is a ferry ramp a road?
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: July 4, 2025, 4:18 pm
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Just been watching a documentary about the Port of Dover.
Police stopped an HGV driver for using a mobile phone as he was
driving down the ramp off a ferry. They took a £200 penalty from
him there and then (by card), His card failed and they actually
clamped his vehicle (to concentrate his mind) before securing
payment via a different card.
The police procedure seemed very odd – they appeared to give the
driver no choice but to pay, but of course that may have been
edited out. But the mobile phone legislation only applies on a
road. Any views on whether the ferry ramp is a road?
#Post#: 79625--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is a ferry ramp a road?
DIR By: Southpaw82
Date: July 4, 2025, 4:21 pm
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Somewhere rattling around in the back of my head is recollection
of a case that says it is.
#Post#: 79626--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is a ferry ramp a road?
DIR By: andy_foster
Date: July 4, 2025, 4:48 pm
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Presumably the Port of Dover would have its own bylaws.
Look at the law idealistically, on the spot fines and any other
extra-judicial punishment is a clear breach of the right to a
fair trial guaranteed by Article 6 of the ECHR. However, as the
rest of Europe are far worse than we are for such practices,
good luck trying to find a judge that would uphold such rights.
#Post#: 79648--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is a ferry ramp a road?
DIR By: The Slithy Tove
Date: July 5, 2025, 4:25 am
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Was it a foreign registered lorry/driver on a foreign licence?
That could explain the on-the-spot fine, whereas a UK driver
could be dealt with in the usual way.
#Post#: 79756--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is a ferry ramp a road?
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: July 6, 2025, 7:26 am
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Yes it was. And that was the officer's justification for taking
the £200 there and then. There was no indication given to him
that he could challenge the allegation or what the process would
be if he did.
As I said, this may have been edited out. But I'm not so sure
that it was because when the driver's initial attempt to pay
failed, they directed him to a customs shed (or whatever it was)
and actually clamped his vehicle. They warned him that it would
remain clamped until the penalty was paid.
I'm not at all sure they have the power to do this. I've looked
at Dover Harbour's bylaws and there seems to be nothing about
road traffic offences at all. Unsurprisingly they are all to do
with boats and navigation and the like. In any case, I doubt
that bylaws would give them he right to demand payment and not
offer the driver the opportunity to have a court hearing.
Strangely, when I first saw this it was the matter of whether
the ramp is a road or not. But on reflection, I think a far more
important aspect is the demand by the police for payment of a
fixed penalty.
#Post#: 79758--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is a ferry ramp a road?
DIR By: Daim456
Date: July 6, 2025, 7:42 am
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On spot penalty is more like a "deposit" for non GB or NI
driving licence holders. The driver is entitled to have the case
heard at Court, if he is found not Guilty then this £200 would
be refunded.
It is similar when GB/NI driver goes to a EEA/Switzerland
country and a deposit would be required to pay on the spot. Not
all countries are allowed to collect payment on the spot
especially in Eastern Europe.
Extradition treatries are not applicable for offences like
mobile phone, speeding, etc
#Post#: 79786--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is a ferry ramp a road?
DIR By: baroudeur
Date: July 6, 2025, 9:46 am
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Watching this series of Port of Dover is tending to show,
disappointingly, their police officers' actions as rather
amateurish as the port is very well run otherwise. Surprising to
learn that the seafront and promenade are within the harbour
property.
However,the truck in question was clamped as the driver had to
leave it to make arrangements for payment of the £200 deposit
required. This is normal police and DVSA practice with foreign
goods vehicles if the driver cannot pay immediately or is
required to appear in court..
#Post#: 79820--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is a ferry ramp a road?
DIR By: NewJudge
Date: July 6, 2025, 2:27 pm
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--- Quote ---
> This is normal police and DVSA practice with foreign goods
vehicles if the driver cannot pay immediately or is required to
appear in court..
--- End Quote ---
Thanks.
I've established that these powers are provided by s11 of he
Road Safety Act, 2006.
You learn something new every day.
#Post#: 79864--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is a ferry ramp a road?
DIR By: roythebus
Date: July 7, 2025, 4:42 am
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It's been so for a couple of years that the UK police and DVSA
have the right to issue on-the-spot fines for road traffic
offences on non-UK registered vehicles and drivers. They don't
mess these days, a large clamp round the vehicle ensures the
fine is paid. The same process is used for breach of drivers
hours regulations, clamped until the driver has had statutory
rest, very often 45 hours.
There's probably something in the Dover bylaws that treats th
harbour roads the same as public roads for certain ofences.
#Post#: 80269--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is a ferry ramp a road?
DIR By: baroudeur
Date: July 9, 2025, 10:39 am
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--- Quote from: roythebus link ---
>
>
> There's probably something in the Dover bylaws that treats th
harbour roads the same as public roads for certain ofences.
>
--- End Quote ---
The byelaws go back to 1606 with subsequent amendments. An
interesting read. Surprising how many roads along the harbour
front are within the boundary.
Normal traffic laws apply to vehicles within the port.
I went with my father who was delivering an SS Jaguar saloon to
Dover in 1949 and watched it being loaded onto the ferry by
wheel straps!!!!!!!!!!
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